Short Notes from the Denver Workshop

our apologies that the livestream was cut off- it will pick up tomorrow at 8am MST for the Advisory Board Meeting

Brief Notes from the Public Workshop – please keep in mind that these are quick notes and whever possible I’ll type fast enough to quote people but in general, please refer to the livestream video (and soon to be archived video) for specifics. -blog editor.

*note, we have an excellent diversity of speakers and groups here and a very good dialogue going that is well-facilitated and fairly on topic. By rough estimate there are over 125 people in attendance. Most are for the horses and sustaining wild herds.*

In an earlier comment Carol Walker: read the definition of sustain (helpful for BLM who recommends gelding herds, skewed sex ratios, massive infertility control).

Suggests that non-sustaining alternatives are really not alternatives if we are going to discuss SUSTAINABLE herds and want them to have a future in the American West.

sus·tain  (s-stn)

tr.v. sus·tained, sus·tain·ing, sus·tains

1. To keep in existence; maintain.

2. To supply with necessities or nourishment; provide for.

3. To support from below; keep from falling or sinking; prop.

4. To support the spirits, vitality, or resolution of; encourage.

5. To bear up under; withstand: can’t sustain the blistering heat.

6. To experience or suffer: sustained a fatal injury.

7. To affirm the validity of: The judge has sustained the prosecutor’s objection.

8. To prove or corroborate; confirm.

9. To keep up (a joke or assumed role, for example) competently.

Karen Sussman (ISPMB): we need to keep harem’s together, maintain beautiful social order. Reason that reproduction increases is due to mismanaged removals as we destroy the family bands that keep. Referenced her studies on the herds rescued and living at ISPMB

“BLM doesn’t know how many horses you have out there” – Colorado advocate

Debate on numbers – BLM is not giving consistent numbers and advocates cite their website, last year’s numbers and more as examples of the inconsistencies. For example there were 20-25,000 wild horses last month on the range and now there are 38,000.

Adoption Demand being discussed—there is no consistent approach to adoptions and marketing of our American mustangs—on one hand you have “Adopt a Living Legend”

“True value of mustangs is on the range. The mission of the extreme mustang makeover is to adopt out captured mustangs. Focusing on the youth and pairing youngsters with yearlings to train”- Patti Colbert of the Mustang Heritage Foundation. Discusses “stickability” of these horses with their adopters.

Best product in the industry, best horses, best hooves, average adoption of $1800 this past weekend in Ft. Collins.

MARKETING needs to be in all caps and we need professionals to do this—crowd cheers.

Some debate over whether mustangs are competing with domestic horses, some folks don’t want them on the market- others say that they’re not taking away buyers, the people who want mustangs want mustangs.
Discussion on Long term holding and lack of transparency- Lily Thomas says that all holding facitilies are available for viewing. When questioned on why the public has been barred from the Broken Arrow, long-term facilities etc. Lily replied that those are on private land and never meant for public access. Several commenter’s say: if you contract with private land-owners than work it out to have public access. The trust is missing and the BLM’s attempts to “use accredited, independent observers” does not suffice.  The public does not want BLM to use people – the public wants public access and cameras. Linda Hanick of Colorado suggests a webcam—if we can have an underwater live webcam on the gulf oil spill than we can certainly have a live webcam on the roundups and holding facilities.

Ginger Kathrens: “Because I own horses so I can understand the pain of seeing an injured horses. However, these are not domestic animals gone wild, they are wild animals. They deserve to have their wild lives and when we skew the sex ratio, use infertility drugs at the wrong time of the year we destroy that and this is a component of animal welfare

Tina Nappe (Sierra Club) suggesting that the public won’t be ok with horses dying on the range (although as two biologists in the room pointed out- wild animals do die in the wild, that is how it works).

Laura Leigh: comments in 60 days is not a dialogue, one public workshop does not suffice.

Cattoor’s were just awarded another contract on May 26th for $500,000+ despite being convicted of hunting horses, aiding and abetting.

The BLM’s 2003 strategic research plan lays out scientific goals. Compinents of pop. contraol and

genetic diversity of WH and B herds is being evaluated. The draft goal for science and research highlights applying the best available techniques. Reducing growth rates, assessing growth rates and establishing AML. Sterilization of both makes and females and additional pop. controls. Another possible management technique is to use whatever they can just as soon as it is safe and legal and not harmful to environment. Review current science and possible actions.

  1. 1) commission NAS national research council to review – make recommendations to BLM
  2. 2) review historic recommendations from Nat. Wild Horse Board
  3. 3) utilizes current rangeland health information to support decisions that affect the management of wild hors and burro herds and their habitat.  Achevie HMA specific objectives. Use ADAPTIVE MANAGEMENT

summary: BLM would continue to conduct research and use best science available


What percentage of the budget is dedicated to the range management, noxious weed control, inventory, monitoring, land health assessments, fire program etc. No one in room can give straight answer.

Don Glenn says: the montitoring and inventor and HMA planning– around $3 million.

doing catch and release roundups in FY 2011 with aggressive fertility control.

Don Glenn adds that we have to predicate our determination on excess animals. Adds that they have a research committee.

Karen Sussman asks: how many of the remaining 180 herds  are not disrupted- do you have any baseline studies on herds that haven’t been rounded up in the past five years.

AH Marsh: census methods, how does research support the combination of census methods — BLM will only use one of the techniques. Depends on funding, staffing, site specific decision.

Sage grouse considerations: may need to change management in some areas.

Question: how can you manage wild horses when you don’t know how many there are? – response is that the BLM is always looking for more science and knows enough to continue.

Everyone’s comments on science so far seem to be centering around knowing how many horses we have and the impacts on the public lands that these horses have or don’t have– a real lack of credible range data.

Karen Sussman: let’s place a moratorium on gathers for at least a few herds so we can get baseline data

Cassandra Nunez, biologist who has studied the Shackleford Banks horses for 17 years: there is a lot of research that has been done that indicates what normal, baseline herd reproduction is– she will prepare a packet for BLM to read. Vast majority of crowd agrees that this should be added to the knowledge base.

Suzanne Roy, AWHPC: testing self-regulation in a research program– test the theory. This would be a valuable addition to the science base.

Katie Fite, Western Watersheds Project: we need better data on the impacts of livestock on HMAs- integrative management necessary and must consider health of the entire ecosystem rather than focusing on one area (ex: riparian areas being protected leading to extensive fencing to keep livestock out led to massive disruption for Sage Grouse).

Ginger suggests that we have a 2-day science workshop and include Dr. Cothran, Dr. Kirkpatrick, and many other experts — this is just a start.

Linda Hanick: the N. Colorado Mustang group spent a morning with USGS to learn more about their work and population count. USGS finds 15% reproductive rate, not the 20% that BLM uses.

Julianne: increase funding for research and science, fully transparent results shared with public.

Makendra: the science and the reason are missing from the Salazar Plan and the BLM’s managment in general– before anything else we need to know and have proof of number of horses on the range- and in holding.

J. Michael Harty did an excellent job of facilitating this meeting and it stayed on track and we only went overtime by a an hour. This is just the start to the talks.

Everyone has been asked to fill out a card that says I would be willing to help BLM by ___________. Maybe everyone could give their suggestions to BLM on this online or via mail as well.


41 Responses to “Short Notes from the Denver Workshop”

  1. sandra longley Says:

    I said it before..will say it again..You all did a great job today! I was hoping they would let the discussion flow over the ‘sustainable herds” because thats where the solution lays..but that did not seem to be a topic they wanted to get started.
    I want to know why Sue Wallis was allowed to ramble on about slaughtering the wild horses during the improvements to the adoption program??? I thought slaughter was off the table?

    • Lisa LeBlanc Says:

      I guess I didn’t read the part that stated

      “…unless you’re a duly elected or appointed representative of a state.”

      sue needs a new speech writer; I can not tell you how many times I’ve read and heard the ‘coyotes rippin’ yer guts out’ line of crap. That she was there at all is kinda nauseatin’.

  2. sandra longley Says:

    what was i thinking..thats her way of improving the adoption program..i am guessing quite a few of those ranchers favoring slaughter were her body gaurds and came in her horse trailer…
    What was the outcome of the science discussion?

  3. sandra longley Says:

    I was a bit confused by the fish and game biologist from oregon who spoke and said we have alot more horses in oregon than what the BLM says there are…and they have caused terrible destruction…shouldn’t he be sticking to the job my taxpayer dollars are paying him for-fish and game…seems to me we have serious problems with our fishing industry here that he doesn’t seem to have a solution for..unless the horses are over fishing and building dams on the columbia..his time would be better spent trying to solve the numerous problems in his dept. Would like his name so i can file a complaint for deriliction of his job description.

    • Linda Says:

      Was that the guy who said all the horses in holding should be euthanized? I pretty much knew the advocates (and SS), but not the others.

    • Suzanne Says:

      Me too, Sandra! I heard him. WHAT is he talking about? I don’t believe there are more horses in Oregon than the BLM knows about. Was he counting cattle perhaps?

    • Linda H Says:

      I sat next to the guy from Oregon. Actually, what he was saying was that there were more horses than the BLM said, in and out of the HMA. He does flyovers in his territory in SE Oregon. He verifies and agrees that the BLM doesn’t have a clue how many horses they have. Actually, he is a nice fellow, and we found a common ground on several topics–the big point we all made. That was the good part of the meeting, we found common ground with one another on several topics, except of course the “Sues.” (Wallis and Stokey from BLM NV.) The fish and game people are one of the stakeholders that were invited, in addition to the wild horse advocates, ranching community, minerals extraction industry (didn’t hear from them), animal welfare groups, and concerned public.

      • sandra longley Says:

        Look we have so few horses left in oregon that it would be difficult to miss some..we have a couple of forested HMAs in murders creek and big summit in the ochocos, but we have advocates who have been following and counting those horses for years..The only place that he could be refrencing would be the beattys butte area on the nevada border where there may be migrations between HMAs..most of our HMAs are isolated and therefore fairly easy to count and our HMAs are small numbers of of 2500 left in the state, 1300 horses will be left by the end of summer not counting the kiger herd which hasn’t been rounded up and is one of the larger…Not only did he say there were more horses but also said that they were destroying the forage..heard it with my own ears and since this is MY country i was very intereste and has a direct impact on what we are trying to do here to save the horses we have left from genetic destruction..Read our EAs on the gathers here.

    • Kathleen Says:

      Go Sandra! File that complaint, you’re right, he needs to do his job and butt out of the BLM issues.

  4. Linda Says:

    Thanks to everyone for running the gauntlet today. You showed the BLM the difference between being “selfless” and “self-serving”.

  5. Linda Says:

    Did Madeline Pickens stay for the whole meeting? Some people said she had left. If so, I find her departure very disappointing.

  6. Jill Says:

    Here, here, Makendra!


    Unbiased, unaltered, not fabricated, not guestimated; but true, real and undeniable proof!

    How can we justify what can not be seen? How can we believe what is hidden from us?

    It is sad that we need to demand the transparency that was promised and proclaimed! But, demand and insist we must!

    Spend our money, not on promotional campaigns, but on proving the claims handed to the people! We who pay their wages and are forced to pay for the unethical removal of lives from their beautiful, natural homelands and have the guilt and intense remorse, of the many needless deaths of so many innocent creature’s lives, who deserve none of this destruction and disruption…

    We demand proof, and nothing short of ethical behavior and integrity!

    And for our Nation’s wild horses, we demand restoration of freedom and preservation of wildness and naturalism, both for these beautiful animals and our uninhabited public land!

  7. Lisa LeBlanc Says:

    How can they make an unbiased scientific projection on Herd numbers & the ‘proliferation’ of the Herds when, as bob abbey stated in his interview for Vanity Fair – there is no research in place to study Herd families or dynamics?
    Here’s my lame-ass theory, on most animals that depend on numbers for survival (and you may insert ‘wolf’ or ‘coyote’ for ‘wild equine’):
    You have just survived an obliteration of your family. Your children are gone. Your mates are gone. Your aging parents, who were teaching you all you’d need to know to survive are gone.
    After you grieve, the Biological Imperative kicks in. Your first instinct, above food, water & shelter is to find others of your kind and Procreate, to replace the family you lost. You do so without thought to resources or restraint – only to replace what you’ve lost as quickly as possible.
    If you’re a male, you will mate with as many females as will have you. If you’re a female, you may take any indiscrimate male, simply to replace what was lost. The whole process is driven by the trauma of catastrophic loss- and the determination at the genetic level that it will not happen again.
    Los Angeles County decided a few years ago the best course of action to bring coyote numbers under control was to poison them in mass numbers. And the rattlesnakes and jack rabbits proliferated.
    The survivor’s response? Breed. The more the merrier. The problems of coyotes coming into populated areas increased dangerously.
    They can NOT apply Domestic Horse logic to Wild Equines.
    Everything humans do in regards to wild animals is disruptive, ruining the safeguards wild animals instinctively have in place. You murder wolves and sure, cattle are safe, but elk & deer sicken or starve because their numbers are left unchecked.
    Kill all the cougars and livestock are saved, but a natural predator is removed and all large wild life will increase exponentially, and resources are destroyed.
    Wild Equines are not feral livestock, nor wild ruminants. They are a species unto themselves, with a structured unity that keeps them alive and allows them to pass wisdom onto the next generation. And keeps their breeding patterns to what their environments will allow.
    How can these sons of stockmen be allowed to minister to the management of animals they admittedly know nothing about??
    My apologies. I’ve been sitting on this for a while and would really appreciate it if someone more articulate than I am would bring this to the attention of ‘the experts’.

    • sandra longley Says:

      I thought karen Sussman and the gal from return to freedom did a great job(despite the moderator trying to cut them off) of explaining sustainable herds-and the negative/plus effects these roundups have on population growth..But they are stuck in the mindset that they can only control population growth by removing the horses

    • Kathleen Says:

      Lisa, it was beautifully said. And it does need to be heard. Not only the man caused population explosion issue but also the point that these are cattlemen or other vested interests managing them when it’s pretty obvious most of these folks in charge despise them. A big problem is that we are dealing with entrenched mindsets, narrow and unable/unwilling to open. We shall see if this seeking of input makes a difference or not. Honestly, I’m not very optimistic. I really really wish I could be….

    • Morgan Griffith Says:

      The problem with trying to manage nature is that those in charge think like CEOs of some corporation and attempt instant fixes such as running horses as fast as you can into cells. No one has sat back and watched the beautiful way that Ma Nature weaves her magic and then try for the very least disruptive manner of range management. When you impact one species even a little you impact everything on down the line from insects to weeds. And of course you take away the natural predators and then snivel that the horses don’t have any predators yee gads. I think that this is what we have been saying for a lot of years–when you turn Nature violently on her head the repairs for this are just as severe–such as unusually high birth rates, animals reproducing at too young an age etc. Range management really should come down to nature’s law–survival of the fittest.



  9. Janet Ferguson Says:

    Well done, Lisa.

    Jay Ferguson said not all the wireless microphones are working right.

    Hope they will find one that works and pass it around.

    Hope Morgan will be on hand to talk to the hotel again if our audio isn’t good! Thank you, Morgan G!

    • Morgan Griffith Says:

      Couldn’t tune in yesterday, hope the sound was OK. Really the management at the Magnolia Hotel in downtown Denver really was the greatest–when I called they put me thru to the man in charge and sent the hotel manager right in. So vacation there if you get a chance.

  10. Janet Ferguson Says:

    Cloud the Stallion Facebook has great meeting updates posted from yesterday!!!

    Can’t access stream yet at CST (9:15 a.m.)

    • Linda Says:

      I can’t access yet either. I wonder if there’s a new link. I saved yesterday’s as a “favorite”. I opened it and registered. Then I got a message the meeting was over.

      Has anybody had success getting connected?

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        No, it’s 9:32 a.m. CST. There is a demonstration today out front of hotel. . .I wonder if that is delaying things? Maybe Jay is demonstrating!

        I am going to go run the vacuum cleaner. (Fluffy white dog fur is accumulating in the corners . . . .) Back in a few.

        Also Cloud the Stallion on Facebook runs a commentary update on the meeting so if link fails today, I will go there and check. Have a good one. Be careful out there.

        All Things Bright and Beautiful
        All Things Great and Small
        All Things Wise and Wonderful
        Lord God Made them All.

        Thank you to the Creator of all Things for this day, for our wonderful natural world of splendor and majesty, and help us to find a way to honor your omnipresence in all our lives.

        And let us be ever mindful of the needs of others.

  11. thecloudfoundation Says:

    I hope everyone can access the livestream now– it has been working since a little after 8am athlough all that was missed were some of the introductions.
    is the link again today– no change
    thanks everyone

  12. Sandra Miller Says:

    For all of you who attend these meetings and listen to these statements from those with a BLM mindset, thank you! I don’t know how you stand it! I just read through the most recent postings on the Blog and felt the fury rising. I keep looking for places to insert something helpful to the wild horses and burros. If you receive emails from the organization, Food and Water Watch, you can sign a petition about the Gulf oil spill that says, ” Tell President Obama that Secretary Salazar Should Close BP Atlantis, or Step Down”. I added the following paragraph to the letter accompanying the petition:

    “May I add, it is also Sec. Salazar who has refused to direct the corrupt BLM to stop catering to the whims and wishes of the cattle industry by illegally removing America’s wild horses and burros from our Public Lands. Sec. Salazar, a fifth generation cattle rancher, has a bizarre idea that the wild horses and burros should be all moved “East”. The American people demand that they be left on their legal ranges as prescribed in the 1971 Wild Free Roaming Horses and Burros Act. I have been working on this issue since August of 2009, and I came to the conclusion some time ago that Sec. Salazar should be fired and a thorough housecleaning should occur at the Bureau of Land Management. The BP Oil Spill is just another example of the long standing corruption in the Department of Interior. Now this department has given the American people TWO reasons to demand that Salazar be fired and a competent, trustworthy, law abiding new secretary be appointed. I recommend Rep. Raul Grijalva of Arizona, who should have had this position in the beginning!”

    The mindset of the BLM is simply to get rid of the wild horses and burros on public land. Every detail that they present, every reason they give, every excuse they make, every utterance from their mouths is geared toward accomplishing that goal. Their charts and graphs present a daunting thicket of generalities and impossibilities. All of this reflects their leadership in the DOI/BLM – and all of this draws like a magnet people who simply hate the wild horses and burros. Such people feel safe and wanted in the BLM meetings, which makes them bold and nasty. It becomes rule by an obnoxious minority.

    We simply have to get rid of the people at the top, starting with Salazar. Now, as you see, there is a chance to do that because of the Gulf oil spill. I only wish the killing, maiming, terrorizing, and locking up our wild horses could captivate our fellow citizens the way killing the Gulf of Mexico and its wild inhabitants has done. Salazar, it seems, was charged with cleaning up the corruption in the Minerals and Mining Service. He obviously did a very poor job (or no job at all!). Our President does not have a clue about these matters, but he is learning. Things in the Gulf will simply get worse and worse. How could it be otherwise? – there is still most of the oil left in the water waiting off shore to make landfall. We must capitalize on this issue to get rid of Salazar. I feel the Department of the Interior is a rotten structure which, if pushed hard enough, will come down with a crash. A new person as Secretary, and I have mentioned Rep.Raul Grijava of Arizona, but I am sure there are others, with a mindset that values the environment and all which live in it above the oil and gas industry, the cattle industry, the mining industry, and rampant development, would not only aid the Gulf – it would aid the wild horses and burros, too. Join me in looking under every rock for petitions directed toward unseating Sec. Salazar. I recommend Food and Water Watch as an organization worthy of your interest for many other reasons, too.



  14. Barbara Steele Says:

    Looks like the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association was in DC in June and Wild Horses were #1 on their agenda. No surprise here–

  15. Barbara Steele Says:

    Boyd Spratling DVM who is on the BLM Advisory Board as the Vet advisor is a former President of the Nevada Cattlemen’s Assoication and is now on their executive committee. Cozy, isn’t it!

  16. Sandra Miller Says:

    I wanted to follow up my comments of last night with a direct quote from President Obama’s speech last night. This has to do with the new head of the Minerals Management Service. Now, I read newspaper articles earlier, did I not, saying that Bob Abbey had been appointed to this position, to replace the head person who had “resigned”? (correct me if I am wrong about this). However, something, it seems, has changed – and very quickly. This is what I meant about the President “learning on the job”. He probably first asked Ken Salazar to suggest someone for the position. Ken, of course, jumped right in and offered up his old friend to the cattlemen, Bob Abbey. Whoops! People who know more about these matters than the President said, I’ll bet, “Well, sir, you won’t get any reform of the “culture of corruption” THAT way!” And so, last night the President said the following to the nation:

    “Now, one place we’ve already begun to take action is at the agency in charge of regulating drilling and issuing permits, known as the Minerals Management Service.

    Over the last decade, this agency has become emblematic of a failed philosophy that views all regulation with hostility, a philosophy that says corporations should be allowed to play by their own rules and police themselves.

    At this agency, industry insiders were put in charge of industry oversight. Oil companies showered regulators with gifts and favors and were essentially allowed to conduct their own safety inspections and write their own regulations.

    And when Ken Salazar became my secretary of the Interior, one of his very first acts was to clean up the worst of the corruption at this agency. But it’s now clear that the problem there ran much deeper and the pace of reform was just too slow.

    And so Secretary Salazar and I are bringing in new leadership at the agency: Michael Bromwich, who was a tough federal prosecutor and inspector general. And his charge over the next few months is to build an organization that acts as the oil industry’s watchdog, not its partner.

    So one of the lessons we’ve learned from this spill is that we need better regulations, better safety standards, and better enforcement when it comes to offshore drilling. ”

    As I said, the President is learning! We HAVE to help him learn that the the BLM needs new leadership, also (of the same type as above!) – and hopefully he and Salazar will also come to a parting of the ways, with a lot of pushes from the American people!

    • Suzanne Says:

      Thanks for posting this, Sandra! Guess I need to send some more of my thoughts to the Prez. Maybe he’s starting to get it after all.

  17. Morgan Griffith Says:

    Sandra I loved your letter. I think how sad it is that they can show hour after hour of oil spewing all over the Gulf and the oiled, dying and dead animals. Everyone agrees this is horrendous. Everyone gets to see this in living color on all media outlets day in day out. The coverage of the wild horses is either BLM rhetoric by the main stream media or people like Jane Vellez (think that’s her last name) who can only allude to the treatment of the horses as the network won’t let her show the horrors–too graphic for television. So oil OK, blood NO. I wish they would do a split screen oil spew one side, wild horse treatment the other with Salaczar straddling both screen shots. It’s his fault, let him claim it.

  18. Sandra Miller Says:

    I love your split screen idea, Morgan! It makes so very clear how EQUAL and SIMILAR these two situations are. Both are the result of a corrupt Department of the Interior mismanaging its part of the deal for the American people. When talking and writing about the Gulf oil spill, we should ALWAYS throw in, “and that’s exactly like the situation with our wild horses and burros” – and then proceed to explain. I always thought the President selected Sen. Salazar to pay a political debt for helping him win in Colorado. The other contender, Rep. Raul Grijalva of Arizona, was much better suited for the job because he is both an environmentalist and a wild horse and burro supporter. I think the President also thought that Salazar would be excellent because he was so familiar with the region and “knew everything about it”. I bet he’s beginning to understand that such a person is exactly the problem! Now I’m beginning to think that a total outsider, another Michael Bromwich, who was a tough federal prosecutor and inspector general, WOULD BE the best choice, just because the corruption is so pervasive in the different agencies of the DOI.



  20. Morgan Griffith Says:

    I’d make it into a banner and carry it!!!

  21. Sandra Miller Says:

    Here is another interesting organization doing battle with our foes, The Center for Biological diversity:

    From “Endangered Earth Online”, No. 517, June 17, 2010
    “Suit Challenges Dirt Cheap Grazing on 258 Million Acres”

    The Center for Biological Diversity and our allies are attacking the national sweetheart deal that ranchers get for grazing their cattle on public land. The Center and others sued the Interior and Agriculture departments last Thursday for subsidizing destructive grazing on public lands. The current monthly fee charged to the livestock industry — an unreal bargain of just $1.35 per cow and calf — doesn’t even cover the administrative costs of operating the livestock program. That leaves U.S. taxpayers to fund the difference — with nothing leftover to pay for grazing’s environmental effects, from stream and watershed degradation to erosion and nonnative species spread, all of which can contribute to endangered species’ decline.

    Our suit will force the feds to confront a legal petition filed by the Center in 2005 that sought to raise the federal grazing fee to an amount that’s fiscally responsible and less ecologically harmful.

  22. Honor Hannon Says:

    I also think we need to watch very closly the spin doctors that the BLM hired to handle the PR on the Salazar wild horse capture and penning.
    They are a group from here in San Francisco with PR ties to PG&E as well as the Ruby Gas Pipeline. Wish WE could afford them.
    Why did Madeline Pickins leave? Were her ideas even aknowledged by BLM?

  23. Jan Says:

    watched both days – no problem with sound except when jay had to adjust it and what was really good was the live chat online – lots of people were on that – too bad it couldnt be saved – many people from horse groups were on the chat line – i got to see some of the people i hear about on cloud which was nice – but could not stand that guy from blm – is his name larry – everyone on chat line wanted him out of there – he has no compassion for the horses or much of anything else – wonder if blm will consider any of the suggestions from the public – most people on chat line didnt think so – sad

  24. Jan Says:

    maybe you could recommend the wild horse person for don abbey old job as director of the blm

  25. Jan Says:

    srry guess its bob abbey – whatever – the reason i heard was why obama picked salazar for head of interior was that he wanted to allow hunting in all public lands and parks – and of course hunter association and probably cattlemen too were all for that and that is why obama picked salazar – it all comes down who donated the biggest bucks for his winning the president

  26. Jan Says:

    i forward about lawsuit mentioned about to jon at western watershed and he wrote back saying they are also part of that lawsuit against the blm

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