Antelope Valley Roundup- Scoping Comments due by 2/12

Thanks to In Defense of Animals for bringing this to the public’s attention.

Oppose the massive removal of 1,506 wild horse in the Antelope Complex located in northeastern Nevada. This proposed removal of approximately 75 percent of the horses would leave behind only 471 horses in the vast 1.3 million acre public lands complex! It’s hard to believe, but the BLM is actually claiming that the 1.3 MILLION acres, consisting of four herd management areas (HMAs), can only support 471 to 788 horses.

This Antelope Complex roundup is currently scheduled to take place this summer or fall. The BLM’s Elko and Ely District Offices are seeking public input for the preparation of a preliminary environmental assessment (EA). This is our chance to oppose and highlight that the BLM’s determination of the “appropriate management level” (AML) for wild horses is flawed and must be revised before proceeding with yet another ill-conceived roundup and removal of wild horses. Send comments to:

Plus Washington Post Article on Eagle Roundup – cancelled for Feb.

Links to BLM press release and letter of notice:
http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/elko_field_office/blm_information/newsroom/2010/january/blm_seeks_public_comment.html

http://budget.state.nv.us/clearinghouse/Notice/2010/E2010-117.pdf


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98 Responses to “Antelope Valley Roundup- Scoping Comments due by 2/12”

  1. Margaret Says:

    As a lawyer friend of mine once told me

    I have tried really hard to see things from your point of view but I just have my head so far up my hinny I just can’t!

    And here we go again. I wonder why they opened that dialogue thing the other day when they knew this was coming down the pike????

  2. Karen L. Says:

    The IDA has an e-mail form for commenting on this roundup and sending to proper BLM officials. I have personalized mine and sent this P.M.

  3. Lisa LeBlanc Says:

    I gotta print this one more time; somebody has to be able to bring this to the attention of an ‘ecological intellectual’ because, as is stated so many times in Op-Eds and other press, Horsie Huggers are emotionally disabled when it comes to facts about Wild Equines:

    FY 09 DATA HERD AREA STASTICS
    Herd Management Area
    Nevada Acres
    15,249,265
    (divided by)
    Nevada Equines
    17,461 =
    1 Equine per 873.33 acres
    AML
    12,688 =
    1 Equine per 1201.87 acres
    Because this is all the range can sustain.
    So, am I truly an emotional cripple or does this data NOT compute??!

    • Karen L. Says:

      The IDA comments address the horses per acre issue.

      • Lisa LeBlanc Says:

        So if they actually allowed 788 Wild Ones to stay behind, that comes out to 1650 acres per animal.
        Or 2760 acres per animal, if they chose the lower end of the spectrum.
        Still smells like manure to me.

      • Karen L. Says:

        Oh, yeah. IDA tells them that it defies common sense; must be revised; and the number of horses left on the range must be increased drastically. I used to compose all my own letters to address these BLM comments, but now I use the forms provided and personalize.

  4. LOUIE COCROFT Says:

    THERE IS A LOT OF INFORATION ON THIS BLOG–INCLUDING INFO ON GRAZING PERMITS– T The Mustang Project Blog Page HANKS TO TRACIE:
    The Mustang Project Blog Page

  5. LOUIE COCROFT Says:

    THAT DIDN’T SUBMIT RIGHT–BUT THE MAIN INFO IS THERE

  6. Lisa LeBlanc Says:

    Ok, this here is for the edification of our Wildlife Advocates:
    It was determined by the BLM in FY 03 the total AUM’s for mule deer, prong horn and big horn sheep for Paiute and Soldier Meadows COMBINED: 2325
    AUM’s for cattle, same area: 4298
    As of 1/14/08
    AUM’s, Livestock, (7-year permits – 2008/2014)
    4481 (eventual stocking levels of 12,168 AUM’s)
    AUM’s, mule deer (786), prong horn (429) & big horn (264)
    Total: 1479
    A LOSS OF 846 AUM’S FOR WILDLIFE.
    These were numbers arrived at and transcribed during a meeting. In attendance were members of the BLM, the National Park Service and the US Fish and Wildlife Service.
    Tell me again, who actually benefits from the BLM’s administration of Public Lands??

    • Nora Morbeck Says:

      How much acreage does the BLM claim is needed per horse? I understand that horses and burros share public lands with other animals, but how much exactly does each horse need? Does the BLM have a real number on file?
      And how do they arrive at this number? Because, as Lisa mentioned above, the numbers just don’t compute. Approximately 875 acres per horse? How do they figure that?

      • Lisa LeBlanc Says:

        Nora – BLM stats for FY 09 for all Herd Management Areas in the 10 Western States put sustainable levels at 1198.90 acres per horse.
        There is further acreage available, but they call it ‘Herd Areas’ as opposed to ‘Herd Management Areas’, whatever the hell that means.
        Regardless – 26,578 wild Equines is what 31,864,461 acres will sustain, according to the Experts. Wild Equines, in some articles attributed to other experts, must eat 20 pound of forage a day (?), OR their own weight in forage every few days OR anything that might be considered a plant with green on it, and they eat it all gone rendering the range useless, and blahblahblah.
        And they say WE’RE dumb…

    • Laura Evans Says:

      well, you also have to remember that wild horses breed like bunnies on viagra and the herd doubles every 4 years and that in 03 so it’s probably QUADRUPLED five times over in the 6 years since. The way the BLM does math anyway.

      • Nora Morbeck Says:

        Yeah, bunnies on viagra. Wasn’t that the Mother Jones article?

        I just love it when people who know nothing about horses sit at their desks, probably wearing designer pumps and expensive perfume, and have the nerve to act like they have any kind of knoweldge about the issue whatsoever. The writer probably can’t tell an angus from a mustang.

      • Nora Morbeck Says:

        And on that note, I’m off to the barn to pull on my muck boots and work gloves, slog through the freezing mud, and give my horses some love.
        Horsey hugs to all!!
        PS: I wear hay in my hair like lovely, earthy jewels! lol

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        My neighbor 2 years ago had 5 acres with 2-3 paints on it. They were well fed; vetted, shoed, rasped, and given a trailer with a big fan in the summer and another fan in the barn. However, the neighbors worked very long hours. The kept the paddocks up, clean; provided love when they could. I was the first to a birth as I was always up at first light with my dogs racing about the landscape. . . (at the time) Came upon the mare, just having had baby plop out. Neighbor was inside smoking — I let her know.

        Our garden was across the way from the horses; we had coyote, fox (after coyote, not so many fox) hawk; kestrel, deer, groundhog; all kinds of insects; snakes, frogs, and birds; chimney swifts every year to our chimney — house built in 1930.

        Day after day the horses passed the time with each other; later 2 were sold and only one left. Whenever I walked over to visit while taking a break from my garden, I would give fresh sprigs of grass over the fence; and talk about things. After a few minutes the horse totally relaxed; tail began swishing; snorts, headshaking, shifting weight, etc. Eyes lit up, etc. When I left to go back to my gardening, it was a different horse, happier to have had someone there. They need company — even a few minutes a day you can spend is better than nothing.

      • Laura Evans Says:

        I used to have a very long drive to take my daughter to school and I would go down this road that ran behind peoples back yards. One of them had a horse and I would look every day because you never knew what that horse would be doing. One day he was chasing a ball around the yard, another day he was carrying a bucket in his mouth and another day he was headbutting a tire swing. Then one day the horse was gone and the people put up a trampoline and a swingset. I missed seeing him everyday but I hope where ever he went that he has friends now because he always looked like he needed a friend.

  7. Laura Evans Says:

    oops, sorry, I missed that 08 part

  8. Laura Evans Says:

    Did anyone see where the BLM was revoking the guys leasing permits because he wasn’t running cattle on the land? He was a conservationalist and they said he misrepresented himself. If I were the Sierra Club I’d be rethinking my partnership with the BLM.

    • Nora Morbeck Says:

      No, I didn’t see that. But if he’s leasing the land, it really shouldn’t matter what he’s doing on it, as long as it’s not illegal.
      Misrepresenting himself, eh? You mean like when BLM folks say that round ups are open to the public but the public isn’t allowed to watch round ups? The BLM knows quite a lot about misrepresentation…

      • theandbetween Says:

        The grazing permit issue has a lot of consequences for the wild ones–it is not as simple as removing cattle and sheep. There has been discussion of permit holders “relinquishing” permits or having permits bought out to allow other uses on public land that has previously been grazing land. These options may or may not help the wild horses and burros, who are, after all, grazing animals (although not domestic livestock). Some conservationists do not want any grazing animals in some areas and consider the wild ones equivalent to domestic livestock that they would like to see off of public land altogether (Sierra Club, National Audubon Society and others).

        The Public Lands Foundation (retired BLM) issued a position paper years ago supporting the concept of relinquishing grazing permits (with some reservations) and I just have to ask why.

        These permits date back to the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 (and before) and were significantly affected by provisions of the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 (FLPMA). Here is a link to what the BLM says about grazing permits. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/grazing.html

        And the Public Lands Foundation position paper on “Voluntary Relinquishment” of federal grazing permits/leases. http://www.publicland.org/14_position_statements/PS_2203_voluntary_relinquishment.html

        Anyone who cares about the wild ones should know something about the history (and politics) of grazing permits, the Taylor Act and the FLPMA.

    • Karen L. Says:

      Misrepresenting himself?? This from the BLM—the masters of creative semantics?

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      What happens if the market goes down and the welfare ranchers don’t want to run as many cattle: do they have to give up their leases; or is BLM just snatching leases away from people like they are snatching horse management areas away from the horses?

      We need anything we can git that shows unfairness of BLM and quite frankly, tho advocates and ranchers may appear strange bedfellows; if we are all mad enough at the BLM for good reasons, it wouldn’t hurt, as others have said, to have a few of them join the anti-BLM sentimento.

      • Angela Valianos Says:

        CROSS POST EVERYWHERE !!!! PLEASE HELP !!!

        815-260-1722 Angela Valianos Cell

        This is really bad. Illinios is reintroducing legislation to reopen Cavel.

        Rep. Sacia is introducing HB4812 to the House Ag committe to be able to reopen Cavel. They suspect they are bringing in some Rep from WY that fancies herself an expert on this issue.

        We need expert testimony for this meeting.

        The meeting is scheduled for 2/16

        This is where OUR WILD HORSES WILL BE GOING ! I have said this all along ! WILD HORSES = HEALTH CARE !!!

        PLEASE CROSS POST EVERYWHERE !!!!

        annabell81824@aol.com

      • Nora Morbeck Says:

        As I understand it, part of the reason that Cavel closed (along with the horse slaughter house in Texas) had to do with the unavailability of USDA inspectors. Since Americans don’t eat horse meat and we don’t feed it to our pets, there wasn’t an inspector for horse meat.
        Has this issue now been dealt with?
        These plants should NEVER reopen. Americans would do better to learn responsible breeding and horse-keeping instead of counting on slaughter to clean up the problem of unwanted domestic or captive wild horses. Time to steer away from being such a disposable society.

      • Angela Valianos Says:

        The CAVEL plant closed because we passed an Illinois Bill making Horse Slaughter illegal in Illinois. 8 years I spent on this issue before we finally did it !

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        No wonder you are so upset!!!

        Were there financial issues involved with the closing of this plant; like they didn’t pay taxes or didn’t pay something they were supposed to? I thought I saw something about lawsuits that were brought against Cavel in Illinois.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        The thing is, horse slaughtering plants in ANY state affect ALL of the “horses out there.” In EVERY state!

        Do you have any thoughts about how to implement other options for horse owners? Besides making excess breeding illegal (like THAT’S gonna happen) Though I did read lately that thoroughbred breeding is down over 8% nationally except in PA. That’s a good sign, right?

        Did you see my post earlier somewhere about shipping to slaughter across Europe? It’s awful.

        Horses are in trouble all over the globe, folks.

      • Lisa LeBlanc Says:

        Angela – how credible is Sue Wallis? I ask because her website is kind of a rambling, immature and poorly constructed thing. The only things missing are references to God and His plan for excess animals. She’d have to be more charismatic in person.
        And all we have to base her supporters on is the list. I find it hard to believe all those organizations would back her play.
        I’m not trying to diminish her capacity as an adversary. I just want to know what we’re up against.

      • theandbetween Says:

        There is no “anti-” anything sentiment. There is only “pro-” wild free roaming horse and burro.

  9. Janet Ferguson Says:

    Doesn’t the link above say the commentts are due 1/27????

    What am I missing here? lol

    • Karen L. Says:

      The e-mail I received said that the time limit had been extended until Feb. 12., as is shown at the top of this page(?)

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Yes, KL:

        Finally listened to radio show from 2/10 and at the very beginning (which I had missed yesterday) Vicki said go to EWA website where they have a form you can use — get it in by Friday. vicki said it they had received word it had been extended. Article title does give correct date.

        thanks.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        KL do you know where I can find the info on the adopt a herd program?

      • Karen L. Says:

        No, but some of the multi-networkers on here probably have information.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        You are supposed to go to the IDA website for the form to comment on the Antelope Complex. I said, above, that Vicki said to go to the EWA website but I misspoke.

        IT IS THE IDA WEBSITE.

        Sorry about that.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Can’t find IDA link but I called BLM yesterday and got emails:

        Bryan K. Fuell, Manager, Wells Field Office:
        Bryan_Fuell@BLM.gov

        also:

        Bruce Thompson, Wild Horse Specialist
        Bruce_Thompson@BLM.gov

        Today’s the deadline. They said that food wasn’t an issue for the horses here, it was water availability.

        The State of Nevada controls 100% of the water distribution in Nevada (if I understand Bryan correctly). I have also heard that the State of Nevada is something like 86% Federal Land.

        I contacted Nevada water people yesterday to try to get an answer about how their water policy affects the wild horses and am reading their website to try to understand their water policies. There is a book they have for $22.00 plus S/H which is available on the water peoples’ website to explain how it works. I think I shall order it. . . .

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        My comments are being removed to the Awaiting Moderation Neverland.

        Here’s an email for commenting to BLM:

        Bryan K. Fuell, Manager, Wells Field Office:
        Bryan_Fuell@BLM.gov

        Also if you go the IDA website you have to click on the Tab, Action Center at the top of Home page to get to their link for commenting on gather.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Today’s the deadline. They said that food wasn’t an issue for the horses here, it was water availability.

        The State of Nevada controls 100% of the water distribution in Nevada (if I understand Bryan correctly). I have also heard that the State of Nevada is something like 86% Federal Land.

        I contacted Nevada water people yesterday to try to get an answer about how their water policy affects the wild horses and am reading their website to try to understand their water policies. There is a book they have for $22.00 plus S/H which is available on the water peoples’ website to explain how it works. I think I shall order it. . . .

      • Laura Evans Says:

        Of course food isn’t the issue. Too many people have seen fat “starving” horses for them to believe that it’s the food.

  10. Angela Valianos Says:

    CROSS POST EVERYWHERE !!!! PLEASE HELP !!!

    815-260-1722 Angela Valianos Cell

    This is really bad. Illinios is reintroducing legislation to reopen Cavel.

    Rep. Sacia is introducing HB4812 to the House Ag committe to be able to reopen Cavel. They suspect they are bringing in some Rep from WY that fancies herself an expert on this issue.

    We need expert testimony for this meeting.

    The meeting is scheduled for 2/16

    This is where OUR WILD HORSES WILL BE GOING !

    I have said this all along ! WILD HORSES = HEALTH CARE !!!

    PLEASE CROSS POST EVERYWHERE !!!!

    annabell81824@aol.com

    • Karen L. Says:

      That is really bad. Have you contacted the Alex Brown group @ alexbrownracing.com? They are super vigilant in the anti-slaughter campaign.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      This document (American Horse Council) although I don’t know the date, is a summary of how the pro-slaughter groups are positioning themselves. It speaks about advocacy groups and tries to equate slaughter with humane issues. The only thing driving slaughter is the contracts for horsemeat in foreign countries in Europe and Asia. Period.

      http://www.feedstuffsfoodlink.com/Media/MediaManager/FINALPROCEEDINGS_version%203.pdf

      • sandra longley Says:

        I read that whole pdf today-because that survey was the basis for all the horse groups signing on to this survey that the slaughter advocates are quoting as nationwide advocacy…but after reading the WHOLE documentation.(which was quite long)..It really is about humane treatment of horses…the bring back slaughter houses ..was a very minute part of a suvey conducted about the percieved state of horses in america during this economic downturn, the AHC states at the end of that long piece…they are NOT advocating the slaughter of unwanted horses..rehoming, selling adoption ect. was the top response given on how to solve the problem…and this whole survey did not even mention the wild horses…which is what this other group is focused on…sending the wild horses to slaughter houses…pure and simple…The slaughter horses at auctions provide a base for horse auctions…when slaughter was hot and heavy…meat buyers would give around 600 for a meat horse of some size..that means registered horses would usually go higher than that…without that bottom..now registered horses at auction will bring 100 if there is even a buyer…so auctions are losing money…registered horses pay an entry fee to catalogue, loose horses just usually a commisssion..so now that prices are so low at auction yards..no one is going to pay an entry fee to sell a good horse there..I have heard stories of people bringing back trailer loads of horses because they couldn’t even get a bid.Action yards are singing the blues

      • Lisa LeBlanc Says:

        But an overabundance of unwanted horses (and I’m talking domestics, not Captive Wild Ones) would mean that somewhere out there are irresponsible breeders.
        I know Thoroughbreds and Arabians because that’s what my Babies is. Someone very unkindly told me once that Thoroughbreds are ‘a dime a dozen’; that’s why they’re so easy to euthanize if they don’t make it on the track.
        Arabians seem to be bred to weed out the very characterisitcs that make them a Desert Breed. When one misses the mark, off they go.
        So I submit to my learned colleagues here in the Comments Section, that it is irresponsible horse husbandry that creates the thousands of unwanted horses that might create the need for alternatives. And the Irresponsible should be made to deal with the problems they’ve created with the tools they have right now.
        Sending a horse to a slaughterhouse is a coward’s solution.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Lisa and Angela, I tried 5 times to put an article up here for you to read — will try again tomorrow.

        The BLM did have a document from a meeting stating a plant to dispose of the horses via euthanasia — they were brainstorming. It goes back to 2008. The money BLM got from Congress restricted the use of the funds to transport or sell the horses for this purpose, I believe.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        I mean restricted the use of the funds so the BLM couldn’t dispose of the horses in that way.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Boo Hoo. A whole trailer load unable to sell

        So, let me get this straight — the horses are livestock(legally).

        There is no market for livestock.

        What do our welfare ranchers do in this position?

      • Nora Morbeck Says:

        Large scale breeders, producing more than 10 foals per year, need to be heavily taxed to offset the expense of humane euthanasia. Flooding the market with horses is irrresponsible. I realize that accountability in the horse industry is practically a curse word. But other industries are held accountable by law for their errors in judgment and action. (I guess Toyota’s recent recall comes to mind. They’re having to clean up after themsleves due to a design flaw…)
        Just as importantly, we don’t eat horse meat in this country. (We don’t eat dogs, cats, guinea pigs and a lot of other companion animals, either — and we also don’t slaughter them here and ship them off to other countries that do consume them.) There is no FDA health standard for horse meat in this country, so if I were in a place that imports from the United States, I’d be very careful about what’s in horse meat. Everything from bute and banamine to steroids to regumate to live virus vaccines, including rabies shots. How ’bout a little PZP on the side? lol
        So, for the folks who think slaughter is a great solution, let’s put a nice slab of horse flank in front of them with bute and banamine for condiments. Let’s watch ’em wolf THAT down!

      • sandra longley Says:

        Taxing everyone for everything is not a solution to the problem. The facts are-everyone including stores manufacturing across the board business was caught with inventories when the economy came crashing down..Most people-responsible or not quit breeding unless they still had a market-Hay costs went extrodinarily high when gas/oil prices went up, leaving people who already owned horses to be unable to feed them-most of those people were back yard people-some were breeders as well..breeders have too much money invested in their broodstock ect to sell at the killers or to ship their horses off to slaughter..attacking everyone is not the solution-making it illeagle to sell freezebranded horses/mustangs to slaughter is the ideal solution-maybe people should prove they have the knowledge or experience to own horses..but we cannot control everything or mandate who has rights in this country-because eventually it might come back around to bite us

    • Lisa LeBlanc Says:

      How do they propose to sell horse meat liberally marinated in all those chemicals? You’d think maybe the European market would have SOME standards.

      • Nora Morbeck Says:

        Actually, some one on here posted something a while ago about the EU’s changing standards for meat. These new standards are being phased in over the next few years, so it doesn’t look like they’ll be buying much horse meat raised in the US.
        Even captive wild horses are exposed to inedible chemicals. They have to be vaccinated. The BLM is also required to provide veterninary care for them, as limited as the care may actually be. So there are potentially thousands of wild captive horses that have “not for human consumption” chemicals in their systems. I don’t know how long it takes to metabolize meds like bute or how long it takes vaccines to work out of their systems. But if the EU starts regularly testing horse meat to meet their implemented standards, I can almost guarantee they’ll come across standard equine medications and vaccines. That will undoubtedly put a damper on the sales of horse meat to the EU at least.
        As some one else also mentioned awhile ago, this change in EU standard might account for a big push to slaughter wild and domestic horses as quickly as possible. Once the new standards are in place, there won’t be as big a market.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      Here’s from HorseTalk

      ttp://www.horsetalk.co.nz/index.php/blogs/2010/02/the-two-sides-of-the-slaughter-debate/

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        ttp://www.horsetalk.co.nz/index.php/blogs/2010/02/the-two-sides-of-the-slaughter-debate/

  11. sandra longley Says:

    Sue Wallis
    307 680 8515

    sue.wallis@unitedorgsofthehorse.org…This is the “expert witness” being brought in from WYO to testify..I can get you info..but you can go to her website..she calls herself a non-profit..org. but is involved in for profit slaughter..she just had a press release I can send you or post if you want it..I just prefer not to spred her propaganda..I happen to find it very usful to know what your enimies are up to…Before I was made aware of this- she had spoke at a meeting at Hamleys western wear in Pendelton Ore..had I know I would have gone to take her on personally..at least until they threw me out..LOL

    • Nora Morbeck Says:

      Sandra – I looked over a letter that Sue Wallis wrote last year in favor of horse slaughter. I found her logic very convoluted. She even sinks low enough to attack vegan diets, stating that parents who raise their children without any animal products are essentially killing them. That’s a new low, even for pro-slaughter folks. YIKES!
      I especially loved her reasoning behind getting horse slaughter reinstated by sharing how generations of her family have worked with horses, that she loves horses and so on. Uhmmm … so she loves horses, so she feels slaughter is a good thing. My guess is that she doesn’t eat them.

  12. sandra longley Says:

    yes, she is a state legislator from WYO. and the board is full of self interest members-all wanting to make the last dime off of animals they no longer have use for…when is the last time you saw a rancher driving his cattle the way they drive the horses..NEVER..they’d shoot you if you tried..I spent the day doing some research on this phony horse group, they seem to be an arm of a larger group that are full of dog breeders ect…(altho i don’t notice the dog breeders advocating for slaughter of the dogs) I don’t notice they are calling for the slaughter of all the unwanted children in the country either…Very hypocritical..and many flaws in their arguments…however their websites state they are supported by almost all national horse organizations, AQHA, paint assoc, AHA, cutting assoc..and so on..that angered me, and i was about to cancell my memberships-and then i went to the AHA page and read a pdf on a research survey they did…and that is where they conclude that americas horse owners support bringing slaughter houses back…Really it all boils down to what the downturn in the economy has done to all animal owners…and all estimates and projections are based on “current downturn trends” Everyone must be made aware-that these statistics are temporary-and bringing back slaughter houses-has to be put in perspective of future economic recovery..The light is over the horizon..conception and birth rates are many times higher in domesticated breeding programs than in the wild. My birth control has been- not to breed-I am sitting here with 5 stallions and a band of mares.. The last time there was a bad turn in the economy I saw AQHA champion mares going thru the auctions for 300 a piece,it sure was a great time to buy. besides the Mustangs are in better shape out on the range than the domesticated horses most people see in their neighbors back yards
    The BLM never seems to see that mother nature is the biggest predator of the wild horses and she manages their number…and the second largest predator are the BLM roundups as we have seen.

    • Nora Morbeck Says:

      We had our mare bred one time because we wanted one foal. We have her beautiful son, who will be with us for the remainder of his days. We’re having our wills revised to provide for our horses with instructions that they are never to be sold or given away. As far as I’m concerned, they’re my extended family.
      I know small farm breeders who are actually very responsible about which mares they breed to which studs. Then there are others who just pump as many babies out as they can to get as much profit as they can. For those people, I’d like to say — If you make the mess, you pay to clean it up. Put an enormous federal tax on large scale breeders to pay for humane euthanasia of unwanted horses.
      As far as wild horses are concerned … it seems to me that the BLM is creating its own problem and making the horses responsible for it. This has been happening for years, and I think the best solution is to take the WH&B program away from this agency. Stop paying them to keep making messes that they refuse to accept responsibility for and won’t clean up.

      • Lisa LeBlanc Says:

        And for those reasons, Miss Nora, you’re my hero.

      • Margaret Says:

        I think one of the things that bothers me is that the BLM is set to start gelding all those studs at Fallon. They should wait until those horses future is ascertained.

        What happens when we go back to Court and those horses are given a reprieve because of mismanagemnt? The studs obviously can’t breed. Those bloodlines will forever be lost.

        By the same token they should wait on the mares too.

        To me this is what is right for the horses.

  13. Lisa LeBlanc Says:

    After visiting the website, did anyone else feel the need of a really long shower? Eeeww…
    I checked the list of ‘boycotts’, and NONE of your names were on it; got to try harder, Ladies.
    Come to think of it, none of the standard Wild Equine Adovcacy organizations were on the boycott list.
    But there were some ‘scientific’ reasonings behind the need to send all unwanted and Wild/Feral equines to a humane slaughterhouse. And lots of Blah Blah, some tripe and a heapin’ helpin’ of Hooey.
    The majority of the ‘contributors’ were Eastern; very few from the Western States.
    Really glad I visited the site; now, I’m TRULY educated.

  14. jan Says:

    shock of shocks today – finally got an email from the humane society against any more roundups by the blm and a petition to send to blm not to hold any more roundups – they mention the loss of life at calico roundup, including the two colts who died from hooves coming off – guess the high lost of life got the attention of the humane society – finally

    • Laura Evans Says:

      I just saw that myself. Did we possibly just trade our soapbox in for a stage?

      • Deb Bennett Says:

        I got the same email myself after I had sent them one. I told them not to contact me anymore for donations until they publicly came out against the roundups and the way the BLM treats our wild horses. They waited until AFTER it was over, but at least they are saying something now. Hopefully it will help.

  15. sandra longley Says:

    I went to the comittee on energy and natural resourses to e-mail members of the comittee and chairman, to please get the R.O.A.M bill out of comittee and on to the floor of the senate for a vote, and/or defund or cut funding for the BLM to stop them from squandering taxpayers dollars on the disatrous program of rounding the wild horses up and shipping them to zoos and a 40million+ dollar ranch, when the are living and thriving on land we already own.
    All committee meetings have been postponed(weather) so they had to postpone the one in which DOI was requesting the funding for their dept until a later date-they did not have a date down for the rescheule..so now would be an excellent time to hit them with a flood of e-mails-so it would be fresh in their minds as they go into that meeting..and one of the comittee members..might raise the issue with the DOI at that time..I am going to go back tomorrow and e-mail the rest of the comittee members

    • Karen L. Says:

      Yes, absolutely contact the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources again at this time. The subcommittee on Public Lands and Forests has the Senate version of ROAM, S. 1579, which needs to get to the floor. The full committee has the hearing on the proposed budget for 2011 for the DOI, wherein Obama has suggested an increase in revenue, on the schedule soon. (It was postponed from Feb. 10 due to weather as sandra noted.) Mary Landrieu, a member of these committees, has been trying diligently to LIMIT funding to the BLM and make them accountable to the horses and to the U.S. taxpayers. She will be our best friend on the committees. I e-mailed both committees; it is good to let them know our thoughts on the funding now. Here is the link to the site—click on ‘contact information’ in the left column.
      http://energy.senate.gov/public/

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        I have a question — do any of the meds/chemicals given to the wild herds make them unsuitable for slaughter for human consumption?

      • Karen L. Says:

        JF, Are you intending that question for me? I have stayed out of the discussions on the EU requirements, etc., because I simply do not view horses (wild or not) as livestock for consumption by anything or anybody. I do not view them as livestock at all, but as either companion animals or as a wild native American species. I will answer in an oblique way. Let’s look at a chart of necessary vaccinations for American beef cattle. (Then there are the regular discussions that go on about antibiotics, hormones, etc.) Wild horses should be part of the food chain for natural predators only, and I will continue to focus on the repeal of the Burns Rider of 2004 and support all anti-slaughter legislation as it is introduced.
        http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/factsheet/AH_Beef__40.pdf

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Just wondering about “what if” scenarios. Thought I had read that PZP is acceptable in human food chain animals.

        I always wondered if this is why it was used on wild horses as it would allow the slaughter sale or slaughter thereof.

        Have seen people say “yes” it’s allowed and “no” it’s not allowed for animals meant for human consumption (on this blog.)

        So I was wondering if anyone knows “for sure.”

        Thanks for the link.

      • Karen L. Says:

        Those who have studied PZP for 20+ years say it does not pass through the food chain—one who says that is Dr. Jay Kirkpatrick, as does the HSUS. (Yes, I’m back to those guys.) I would tend to believe Dr. Kirkpatrick. The whole point of using PZP on wildlife, including deer, was because it was “safe” to eat. It is supposedly degraded in the process of digestion. I’m personally not going to be eating any wildlife, but not because of PZP.

      • theandbetween Says:

        The question about “meds/chemicals” given to the wild ones seems to have nothing to do with the original post about the R.O.A.M. bill.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        The reason I put my chimical question where I did Is I was asking Karen L who is knowledgeable in the area.

    • sandra longley Says:

      By the way, you can actually watch the comittee in session on that website..its like a c-span…when they reschedule that meeting i will try and post that, because I want to see for myself if anyone brings this issue up and what DOI has to say about it

  16. LOUIE COCROFT Says:

    ANGELA, I GOT A REPLY FROM THE EQUINE WELFARE ALLIANCE ON THE THE BILL TO REOPEN CAVEL–THEY SAID THEY HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT SINCE EARLY JANUARY AND THAT REP. SACIA HAS BEEN TRYING TO OVERTURN IT FROM THE BEGINNING. THEY ARE SENDING PEOPLE THERE (ILLINOIS) TO THE HEARING AND THAT ALL THE REPRESENTATIVES NEED TO BE TARGETED.

  17. sandra longley Says:

    As always, BLM says it was done for the good of the horses.

    “The reason we did go forward was based on the fact that if we didn’t gather this winter, we would really have an emergency situation this summer,” said BLM District Manager Gene Seidlitz.

    According to Seidlitz, BLM is mandated by law to gather excess horses, and he says the bureau did extensive monitoring to confirm the numbers. But the fact is, the numbers were wrong and BLM knows it.

    Critics told BLM before the roundup there weren’t nearly as many horses in Calico as predicted. BLM said it planned to gather up to 2,700 mustangs, but it couldn’t find that many.

    They stopped about 700 horses fewer than their its target. How could they be that far off?

    “There’s a lot of migration of wild horses going on that we didn’t realize until recently,” said Seidlitz.

    Wild horses migrating across invisible boundary lines? Who knew?

    Critics like Cindy MacDonald say the problem is inherent because BLM doesn’t do much observation work. Rather, it depends on estimates to create what’s called AML — Appropriate Management Level — desired targets that were written up 10 or more years earlier.

    “They are supposed to being doing these population levels based on range land data. Instead they use population charts and just check off little boxes, no proof required. Then they turn around and authorize tons of livestock units,” she said.

    BLM says its primary job is to protect the land and that horses are incredibly destructive. In roundup after roundup, the agency claims horses are starving and that the range is imperiled, but the agency sometimes has trouble keeping its story straight, especially when it comes to cattle.

    In January 2008, for instance, BLM authorized a 300-percent increase in the number of cattle that could graze in the very same Calico area. BLM experts said at the time that the impact from wild horses in the area as minimal, which meant the number of authorized cattle could increase.

    Two months after the jump in cattle was approved, BLM produced a new survey claiming the wild horse population was had jumped from 500 to more than 3,000 in just four years — an increase critics say is preposterous.

    Nonetheless, more cattle were authorized and the horses had to go.

    Attorney Valerie Stanley accomplished what no one else has done. She stopped a BLM roundup by taking them to federal court in Colorado. Stanley argued that BLM tends to make stuff up as it goes along. The judge agreed.

    “BLM for so long has just had this position of whatever they say goes,” she said.

    I thought this was a great story from George Knapp on channel 8 news in Las Vegas

    • Lisa LeBlanc Says:

      So it seems to me they actually set out to set the Wild Ones up as the fall guys to cover their big fat backsides when the Wildlife started to suffer. They diminshed, in 5 short years, range capacity for the more numerous wild ungulates, but allowed incremental increases for cattle on almost a yearly basis since 2003.
      Are we the only ones who read this crap?

    • Laura Evans Says:

      I thought it was very good too and I immediately reposted it on my facebook. I’ve actually started getting some responses from my non advocate friends. Well, they were non advocates a few weeks ago. The one from the humane society was very good too.

    • Karen L. Says:

      The best and most telling line in the article is, “the BLM tends to make stuff up as it goes along”. I’m beginning to think they might not be fixable as custodians of living resources.

      • Laura Evans Says:

        Good because as far as I’m concerned, the only thing wrong with the original Wild Horse and Burro act is the people in charge of enforcing it. This is such an obvious case of the fox guarding the henhouse that the whole phrase could be changed to the blm guarding the wild horses and still make perfect sense.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        The estimation of 17,000 head upon passage of the PL-92-195 could also be seen to have been “engineered” — if one considers their number a decade later to have been estimated at 55,000. That’s not a normally expected natural growth rate for the wild horses nowadays, is it?

        Maybe this math problem (not rapid-reproduction) has been going on for quite a while?

      • Laura Evans Says:

        Well, wasn’t there something mentioned about the count not being accurate when the original bill being passed in that article on Wild Horse Annie? Regardless of the count though, that’s just another thing the BLM has twisted around. They say that the population is to be what it was at the time of the original act (which was an incorrect number) but the truth is that the amount of land that they had was to be where they were found at the time of the original act. I hope I said that right. My brain is a little scrambled today. Sick kids, lots of snow and no sleep.

  18. Janet Ferguson Says:

    Just sent this regarding the Calico Complex gather:

    This is Public Comment on the Proposed Gather Antelope Complex

    Dear Mr Bryan Fuell:

    1) Have you experienced reduced frequency in gathers in any areas where PZP has been used? Where and when?

    You need to consider leaving some areas where no PZP is used. These areas could be given over to other management methods, perhaps when new birth control methods are developed they could be tested here. Don’t PZP everything out there. You’ll be back to square A as it doesn’t seem to limit the gather frequency from what I can tell.

    I suggest that if they are going to be rounded up every few years anyway to be given the PZP treatments, is it not more humane not to give the PZP and to just remove them from the ranges? I realize this increases the problem of the population increasing “off the ranges” but this must be fixed in some way, shape or form.

    By the way, where is all the land they had available to them when PL-92-195 was passed? Why has all this been systematically decreased wherever they were present? You are taking their lands away from them. What’s with that??? 88 million acres down to 26 million occupied acres. Please explain.

    2) I recommend you do not delay death if severe suffering is apparent. I recommend that you not process so many horses at once that you cannot monitor each horse adequately and humanely so a severely injured horse which is in pain is not overlooked in the rush and made to suffer for days. I recommend that even though your people are trained to shoot to (hopefully) kill, that a vet must be available to approve. You must have enough vets at each gather to cover this situation. What is wrong with you — vets should decide this. This is the richest, most powerful country in the world. There is no excuse to take public money and still have so much suffering of horseflesh and destruction that occurs. It is ridiculous.

    In the Calico Complex we watched incredible suffering and destruction. I recommend you take a hard look at things before you repeat this type of gather again.

    I recommend you do away with your current contractors. It is apparent they are inhumane and brutal, go too fast, move too many horses and the result is the injury, death, devastation even among the young horses. Make a change in this.

    You don’t need barbed wire around a gather site.

    Also I recommend you stop the brutality of chasing these horses with their young for miles and miles resulting in deaths, with helicopter millionaire cowboys terrifying them for miles. You take the cake, really. Face it.

    3) Also I recommend that you take a full actual count of the horses before any gathers are done for each herd area.

  19. LOUIE COCROFT Says:

    I THINK WE NEED TO START CAMPAIGNING FOR THE “IN THE WILD”MANAGEMENT PROGRAM THAT I HAVE SEEN MENTIONED. THAT WOULD GIVE US SOMETHING TO COUNTER AS A SOLUTION WHEN WE ARE HIT WITH “ALL WE DO IS SCREAM” COMMENTS. ALL GOOD IDEAS THAT WE HAVE HEARD, SUCH AS KEEPING COUNT AND RECORDS ON ALL OF THE HERDS, SO THAT WE DO KNOW HOW MANY THERE ARE. KNOWING HOW MANY FOALS ARE BEING BORN, HOW MANY MAKE IT TO BREEDING AGE, AND WHAT TIME OF YEAR THEY ARE BEING BORN–OUT OF SEASON OR AT A GOOD TIME OF YEAR. WE NEED TO KNOW THE LONG TERM EFFECTS OF THE PZP. I DON’T THINK GINGER IS AGAINST IT, JUST AGAINST THE INDISCRIMINATE USE OF IT. THERE MUST BE BETTER, LESS INTRUSIVE WAYS TO IMPLEMENT IT WHEN NEEDED. JUST THINK OF WHAT THE MONEY THAT HAS BEEN AND IS STILL BEING SQUANDERED COULD DO. ALL OF THE PEOPLE LIKE GINGER, ILYSE, CRAIG AND MANY OTHERS ARE DOING THAT NOW, USING THEIR OWN TIME AND MONEY.

    • Laura Evans Says:

      We’ve discussed people studying the herds before and an idea came to me last night. To help support the funding for an idea like this there could be adopt a horse programs out there where people or groups like a class or a scout troop or even individuals could “adopt” a wild horse and who ever studies the herd with that particular horse could send monthly pictures and updates on that horse. They could name the horse and follow it for, I don’t know, a monthly or yearly fee for as long as they like. That way people that don’t live anywhere near wild horses can still be a part of it. And I know that kids like mine would love being able to tell her friends “This is my horse so and so, he lives here” and giving them updates every month.

  20. LOUIE COCROFT Says:

    JANET, YOUR LETTER IS SO GOOD! LOOKING AT YOURS MAKES ME THINK I WOULD LIKE TO REDO MINE.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      I always question my letters, Louie, thanks for the kind words. I sweat bricks after sending this type of letter, because I wonder if I have lost a chance at a more gentle approach to providing ideas that might eventually find their way into a rational discussion of the issue by the powers that be.

      Since I am not a scientists, politician but only providing the “grist for the mill” (taxes) and since many people don’t give a hoot about wild horses, anyway, I almost feel that the good Lord has given me this caring for the wild horses and burros for a reason, that I must speak up, speak my heart and the best way I know how to do; maybe it’s not perfect, but it’s all I can do. We are imperfect humans and as such, have learned ways to do things. I have a tendency to word these so strongly but I certainly hope that the strong wording won’t put them off or cause them to place it in the round file, so to speak!

      All we can do is say how we feel and keep going.

  21. sandra longley Says:

    I had a thought about coming up with ideas to make the gathers more animal friendly and about the pros and cons of making it workable.
    setting up winter feeding areas-once established and the animals are comfortable with that, it will become part of their migratory pattern, animals could be easily monitored, counted, health noted-they wouln’t have to be run for miles-you wouldn’t need helicopters…that 100,000 a day could be used for feed..I think the pens would need to be large so that animals wouldn’t be so suspicious about entering…and start by just feeding them in that area and then graduate to building parts of the pens, until they were used to the enclsore and entering to feed. any ideas on this?

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      That sounds so reasonable and like such a great idea.
      The tragedy of this “slow motion disaster” is that the Advisory Council, which has been in place in various forms since 1934 Taylor Act; seems to have blocked all

      creative
      synergistic
      motley
      diverse
      multi-source

      ideas, put the “fox in charge of the hen house” and, as such, taken what could have been a progressively oriented, modern tool that reflected public opinion of ALL THE TAXPAYERS who are paying for this, including the HUMANE OBSERVERS and Advocates who never had a seat on the Board as I understand it, though there IS ONE, from creating a

      ACTUAL TRUE LIFE DISCUSSION OF THE ISSUES AND POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.

      Later.

      Your suggestion would seem basic, unless, of course, it was too costly.
      Better for the helicopter cowboys and their meat choppers to “rake it in.” apparently.

  22. Angela Valianos Says:

    Dearest Everyone-

    There is so much information surrounding the closure(s) of the plant here in Illinois and the 2 plants in Texas. After all these years we have been surrounded by many that have educated themselves on a completely different arena concerning Horses, and that would be the facts of slaughter as a whole. I know many of you joined into this battle to save Americas Mustangs and Burro’s and many had never realized the slaughter of these magnificent animals was even a remote possibility, I realize that the process of learning what has come before the battle you have engaged in, is very important so that you all know what you are up against. It has taken many years to get to the point of full knowledge yet we are surprised everyday !

    Now we are fighting a different battle, however still concerning the major VICTIM and that is the horse, wild or not.

    One thing I can assure everyone is the game has not changed, the rules change daily and that is where all of you come in.

    I feel that we need to pick apart the 5th Amendment for the Wild Horses and Land:

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment05/14.html

    I know there are many questions and I will try to answer any and all, if you should have a question that needs answering ASAP please email me privately. Be assured that the PRO Slaughter folks read this forum along with all the others so be careful what you say, it will be used against the horses. annabell81824@aol.com

    Cavel was finally shut down after State Legislature signed a bill into law in the State of Illinois to make Horse Slaughter Illegal, in September of 07. However, during the battle/war we had many different TEAMS which would gather information on EVERY level of horse slaughter and attack CAVEL, along with the plants in Texas; towards the end, we took on the Offensive role instead of the defensive, we beat them at their own game.

    Texas was attacked with environmental issues along with a law that had been in standing within the State of Texas for many a year that made Horse Slaughter Illegal; the plants scoffed at us and the law (they are ALL foreign owned so they assumed the laws did not affect them) why should they; they made millions and only paid $5.00 in TAXES, anyhow, the plants in Texas fought with all they had, taking monies from the BIG CATTLEMEN ASSOC. to fight their battle. In the end losing of course but the brutal nature will stay forever in the hearts of those that witnessed it and still reside around the plant.

    Here in Illinois, I decided to take on the drug issue along with Dawn Mancina. We figured all punches counted. Dawn Mancina took on the responsibility of researching ALL the drugs common place in horses, on and off the track; she designed a packet with over 300 drugs labeled “NOT INTENDED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION”. The last part would be the beginning of the end in shipping USA horse meat overseas. I will get into that in a minute. The DeKalb Sanitary District here in Illinois was not enforcing fines which CAVEL owed due to overages in contamination in their offal going into the Sanitary Plant to clean and then release into the Kishwaukee River. These fines were up in the 10’s of thousands: blood money yet a good way to hit them, where it counts. The District and CAVEL didn’t think we were that smart, well, we were and are. Dawn flew in and we attended yet another meeting with the District with CAVEL there to answer to our allegations. We had a MEDIA TEAM that sent out our Press Release to EVERYONE EVERYWHERE because this would be the only way to get word to the people in the EU that this was a serious matter, the drugs. We were called upon to speak, only because they had to; Dawn and I presented our facts and findings. The people were concerned, the District and CAVEL NOT ! They again, were above the law, so they thought. We were dismissed but only after the information was made public and now used today with the EU.

    The District CLAIMED they knew nothing of these drugs, however the President, Dennis Collins is a very wealthy Pig Farmer here and deals with many of the common drugs on a daily basis. The District blamed it on the EPA, which is another story I shall get into later.
    The District kept giving CAVEL chances to get their output corrected and the reasons are (in my opinion and others):

    1.) They were ALL good ole boys and friends.
    2.) James Tucker ( the plants Manager) was big in with NIU (university) another long story.
    3.) They all played golf on the same green which one year the horses escaped and ran over the hill and ended up on the green, only to
    be rounded up and sent right back over the hill to their final destination; CAVEL.
    4.) The people here had been in fear of CAVEL, Monsanto and the Former Mayor Greg (the keg) Sparrow.

    You see the USDA and the EU were not completely honest with their consumers overseas. Women were miscarrying after injesting the meat, children were dying and everyone wondered why ! Which brings me to the PZP, I have been informed by a very reliable source that the HSUS is paying for these drugs to be administered. Which would explain why they have not been active in trying to help. The ONLY time the HSUS tried to help me/horses was when ALL the homework was done so that they could get their names in the paper and up their donations. Even then, I had to hire curriors to get pamplets to the Federal Judges with the facts because the HSUS would not present a case in ANY of my interactions with them, I did not recieve donations after this, THEY DID ! ANOTHER long story.

    What we do know are several of the BLM horses ended up here in Illinois at CAVEL !!! CAVEL still holds ownership on the slaughter plant here, they are merely leasing it to a Muslim group, they have NOT taken down their signs, why? Because they have every intention on reopening, and the BLM is already selling horses 3-4 cents a lb to KILLER BUYERS. And, we do know that horses are disappearing from the BLM lots, fast !

    I have almost 9 years of who, what, why, where and when. Too much for a simplified explanation.

    What I do need is a TEAM of people passionate enough to follow through on getting the facts from the BLM. If anyone is interested in taking action then PLEASE let me know. This will be a learning experience and a very emotional roller coaster, so I do know first hand that it can make a person get lost.

    I feel I need to say a bit about myself in defense of some personal attacks on me, just so you all know. I have nothing to hide and will answer all questions. I spent so many days and nights at the plant and witnessed so many awful actions that even as strong as I am, I could not seem to deal with what I was so deeply passionate about and deeply involved with. I made a promise to ALL the horses; that I would see this through to the very end, I intended on keeping those promises, at any cost.

    About 2 years before we succeeded in closing the plant I witnessed 2 truck loads of babies entering the gates. At first, the trucks looked empty and I wondered why. With deeper examination, I seen legs at the bottom, then I seen little eyes trying to peek through holes just above them, through the tainted metal trailer I seen BIG, unsure, scared BROWN EYES peering back at me.
    OH MY GOD THEY WERE JUST BABIES !!!

    More later on ALL the illegal activities that ALL the plants engaged in.

    That, along with so many other things in my personal life sent me right over the edge. I had to leave and went directly to my Doctor who prescribed me Xanex. Some days it would help me but others I needed more, more help to carry through with my promises to the horses so, I drank. I mainly drank at night and I would drink alot, don’t get me wrong, I am not defending my behavior I am explaining. No one else was right in the trenches here at the plant every single day as I was, so who is to say how anyone would handle it, this is how I felt I could. Right after the plant shut down I found help outside of the bottle but not before my damage had been done.

    I can say that I have gotten into heated discussions, emails and said some pretty awful things to others in defense of myself and my battle, my battle with myself and for the Horses. That being said, yes, I have done and said some things that the average person might not have, but who is to say unless they were doing what I had been doing.

    I can say, every time I went to DC to fight, I was ALWAYS sober and I NEVER hit on John Holland as he has been known to spew. I might have done or said several things to get my anger out but, I am the first to admit them. However, my passion although sometimes misunderstood or presented in the wrong way has always been and always will be the HORSES !

    That being said, if anyone has any questions about my past, please ask me. I felt this needed to be said should anyone wish to work with me on my next plan to get to the core of the BLM’s accounting on heads within their so called holding area’s and the plan to reopen CAVEL to send our horses EAST !

    I have never been in this battle for the glory and many have, thus the attacks. So, we need TEAM members that can look beyond what I did to myself and things I said to others while in my anger. So, again, if anyone wants to help me get the info we need, please email me privately, we cannot have the topic in a public forum.

    Thank you all for reading and I hope you NEVER give up, this will be a battle-war and it will last longer then most think.

    Angela Valianos

  23. LOUIE COCROFT Says:

    THEY DO USE SOMETHING CALLED “BAIT TRAPPING”. DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT, BUT SOUNDS LESS OMINOUS THAN HELIDOPTERS.

    • Lisa LeBlanc Says:

      Louie – in ‘bait trapping’ they use either food or water with an enclosure built around it. After the herd enters, they close off the end of the trap.
      I understand it’s time consuming, but apparently it’s less stressful and the ‘trappers’ can pick and choose who stays and who goes.
      Then they disappear into the sunset, or something romantic like that.
      The very fact that it is less stressful should make it the choice of ‘gathers’. But the very fact that it takes time, patience, knowledge of your quarry, a sense of humanity and other stuff contrators don’t possess makes it ‘inefficient’.

    • Karen L. Says:

      Another problem with bait trapping is that horses become trapped targets for mountain lions. That has been Ginger’s argument against them.

      • Laura Evans Says:

        Also the horses tend to hang out near them and that also makes them easy targets for mountain lions.

      • Lisa LeBlanc Says:

        But in Nevada, where the cougars were pretty much hunted out of existence (anybody here ever heard of the Desert Wolf??!) (more bitterness from Lisa against The Powers That Be Shootin’ The Range In The Foot), that might not be a problem.
        The problem might be a contractor who holds the herd for too long; the trap would essentially become a Rangeland Holding Facility. But in the desert, like the Calico Complex and The Eagle Complex, this would be a helluva lot more humane than running babies to death.

    • sandra longley Says:

      I have been tracked by a mountain lion while gathering cattle in Northern Nevada…makes the hair stand up on the back of your kneck..we would stop-then the cat would stop..he was on a ridge about a 1/2 mile away..generally speaking a cat will only be capable of taking a foal, or a downed horse that is too sick or ill to fight. we have alot in oregon where they are protected and in Calif also, they come into population centers and start working the edges-taking cats and dogs..we have had some attacks on horses in pens-no horses killed and minidonkey even fought one off, with some wounds-but not life threatening. Cattle would be an easier catch for them-or sheep

  24. LOUIE COCROFT Says:

    HELICOPTERS–GLAD THIS ISN’T A TEST.

  25. Angela Valianos Says:

    UPDATED VERSION, PLEASE ERRASS PREVIOUS POST ! I thought on it overnight and knew I had to make changes, my apologies. I will not let it happen again !

    Dearest Everyone-

    There is so much information surrounding the closure(s) of the plant here in Illinois and the 2 plants in Texas. After all these years we have been surrounded by many that have educated themselves on a completely different arena concerning Horses, and that would be the facts of slaughter as a whole. I know many of you joined into this battle to save Americas Mustangs and Burro’s and many had never realized the slaughter of these magnificent animals was even a remote possibility, I realize that the process of learning what has come before the battle you have engaged in, is very important so that you all know what you are up against. It has taken many years to get to the point of full knowledge yet we are surprised everyday !

    Now we are fighting a different battle, however still concerning the major VICTIM and that is the horse, wild or not.

    One thing I can assure everyone is the game has not changed, the rules change daily and that is where all of you come in.

    I feel that we need to pick apart the 5th Amendment for the Wild Horses and Land:

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment05/14.html

    I know there are many questions and I will try to answer any and all, if you should have a question that needs answering ASAP please email me privately. Be assured that the PRO Slaughter folks read this forum along with all the others so be careful what you say, it will be used against the horses. annabell81824@aol.com

    Cavel was finally shut down after State Legislature signed a bill into law in the State of Illinois to make Horse Slaughter Illegal, in September of 07. However, during the battle/war we had many different TEAMS which would gather information on EVERY level of horse slaughter and attack CAVEL, along with the plants in Texas; towards the end, we took on the Offensive role instead of the defensive, we beat them at their own game.

    Texas was attacked with environmental issues along with a law that had been in standing within the State of Texas for many a year that made Horse Slaughter Illegal; the plants scoffed at us and the law (they are ALL foreign owned so they assumed the laws did not affect them) why should they; they made millions and only paid $5.00 in TAXES, anyhow, the plants in Texas fought with all they had, taking monies from the BIG CATTLEMEN ASSOC. to fight their battle. In the end losing of course but the brutal nature will stay forever in the hearts of those that witnessed it and still reside around the plant.

    Here in Illinois, I decided to take on the drug issue along with Dawn Mancina. We figured all punches counted. Dawn Mancina took on the responsibility of researching ALL the drugs common place in horses, on and off the track; she designed a packet with over 300 drugs labeled “NOT INTENDED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION”. The last part would be the beginning of the end in shipping USA horse meat overseas. I will get into that in a minute. The DeKalb Sanitary District here in Illinois was not enforcing fines which CAVEL owed due to overages in contamination in their offal going into the Sanitary Plant to clean and then release into the Kishwaukee River. These fines were up in the 10’s of thousands: blood money yet a good way to hit them, where it counts. The District and CAVEL didn’t think we were that smart, well, we were and are. Dawn flew in and we attended yet another meeting with the District with CAVEL there to answer to our allegations. We had a MEDIA TEAM that sent out our Press Release to EVERYONE EVERYWHERE because this would be the only way to get word to the people in the EU that this was a serious matter, the drugs. We were called upon to speak, only because they had to; Dawn and I presented our facts and findings. The people were concerned, the District and CAVEL NOT ! They again, were above the law, so they thought. We were dismissed but only after the information was made public and now used today with the EU.

    The District CLAIMED they knew nothing of these drugs, however the President, Dennis Collins is a very wealthy Pig Farmer here and deals with many of the common drugs on a daily basis. The District blamed it on the EPA, which is another story I shall get into later.
    The District kept giving CAVEL chances to get their output corrected and the reasons are (in my opinion and others):

    1.) They were ALL good ole boys and friends.
    2.) James Tucker ( the plants Manager) was big in with NIU (university) another long story.
    3.) They all played golf on the same green which one year the horses escaped and ran over the hill and ended up on the green, only to
    be rounded up and sent right back over the hill to their final destination; CAVEL.
    4.) The people here had been in fear of CAVEL, Monsanto and the Former Mayor Greg (the keg) Sparrow.

    You see the USDA and the EU were not completely honest with their consumers overseas. Women were miscarrying after ingesting the meat, children were dying and everyone wondered why ! Which brings me to the PZP, I have been informed by a very reliable source that the HSUS is paying for these drugs to be administered. Which would explain why they have not been active in trying to help. The ONLY time the HSUS tried to help me/horses was when ALL the homework was done so that they could get their names in the paper and up their donations. Even then, I had to hire couriers to get pamphlets to the Federal Judges with the facts because the HSUS would not present a case in ANY of my interactions with them, I did not receive donations after this, THEY DID ! ANOTHER long story.

    If you wish to visit Animals’ Angels website, here you will find other avenues and courageous people who have taken this battle further with the hope of directing ALL FACTUAL documentation to the EU and the people who have been fooled by the USDA and the GOLDEN HALOS which have have now shown their true HORNS: http://www.animals-angels.com/index.php?pageID=start_us&sessionLang=us

    Animals’ Angels have been deep in the trenches not only here, or circulating the drug issue but they have put their lives on the line to get deep into Mexico, a horror you will never begin to understand or one you shall never forget. We have further documentation showing 3 FULL truck loads of horses been turned away from KILLER BUYERS and yes RESCUES, taken down deep into Mexico and dumped in old mine shafts; if not already dead upon arrival, they (you would) wish they would have been, this death will take longer and much more cruel then anything you may have ever seen. Please join the mailing list of Animals’ Angels, they are truly angels sent from GOD !

    What we do know are several of the BLM horses ended up here in Illinois at CAVEL !!! CAVEL still holds ownership on the slaughter plant here, they are merely leasing it to a Muslim group, they have NOT taken down their signs, why? Because they have every intention on reopening, and the BLM is already selling horses 3-4 cents a lb to KILLER BUYERS. And, we do know that horses are disappearing from the BLM lots, fast !

    I have almost 9 years of who, what, why, where and when. Too much for a simplified explanation.

    What I do need is a TEAM of people passionate enough to follow through on getting the facts from the BLM. If anyone is interested in taking action then PLEASE let me know. This will be a learning experience and a very emotional roller coaster, so I do know first hand that it can make a person get lost.

    I feel I need to say a bit about myself in defense of some personal attacks on me, just so you all know. I have nothing to hide and will answer all questions. I spent so many days and nights at the plant and witnessed so many awful actions that even as strong as I am, I could not seem to deal with what I was so deeply passionate about and deeply involved with. I made a promise to ALL the horses; that I would see this through to the very end, I intended on keeping those promises, at any cost.

    About 2 years before we succeeded in closing the plant I witnessed 2 truck loads of babies entering the gates. At first, the trucks looked empty and I wondered why. With deeper examination, I seen legs at the bottom, then I seen little eyes trying to peek through holes just above them, through the tainted metal trailer I seen BIG, unsure, scared BROWN EYES peering back at me.
    OH MY GOD THEY WERE JUST BABIES !!!

    More later on ALL the illegal activities that ALL the plants engaged in.

    That, along with so many other things in my personal life sent me right over the edge. I had to leave and went directly to my Doctor who prescribed me Xanex. Some days it would help me but others I needed more, more help to carry through with my promises to the horses so, I drank. I mainly drank at night and I would drink alot, don’t get me wrong, I am not defending my behavior I am explaining. No one else was right in the trenches here at the plant every single day as I was, so who is to say how anyone would handle it, this is how I felt I could. Right after the plant shut down I found help outside of the bottle but not before my damage had been done.

    I can say that I have gotten into heated discussions, emails and said some pretty awful things to others in defense of myself and my battle, my battle with myself and for the Horses. That being said, yes, I have done and said some things that the average person might not have, but who is to say unless they were doing what I had been doing.

    I have been accused of many things that are simply not true, however, some are. I might have done or said several things to get my anger out but, I am the first to admit them. Should you have any questions on something you may have heard on what I might have done, I would appreciate a forthright question, I am sorry for what I truly have done and will pay for that for a very long time. I can say my first and foremost duty was to the horses, and it still is….always !

    That being said, if anyone has any questions about my past, please ask me. I felt this needed to be said should anyone wish to work with me on my next plan to get to the core of the BLM’s accounting on heads within their so called holding area’s and the plan to reopen CAVEL to send our horses EAST !

    I have never been in this battle for the glory and many have, thus the attacks. So, we need TEAM members that can look beyond what I did to myself and things I said to others while in my anger. So, again, if anyone wants to help me get the info we need, please email me privately, we cannot have the topic in a public forum.

    Thank you all for reading and I hope you NEVER give up, this will be a battle-war and it will last longer then most think.

    Angela Valianos

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