American Herds- updates and great information
*update on Advisory Board meeting– check Monday for streamed video, not up yet*
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thecloudfoundation.wordpress.com 
October 4, 2009 at 10:30 pm |
Here’s a quote from that website, dated Thursday, November 29, 2007, in article entitled, “Stalled””
“. . . .
So here we sit…..
Unprecedented numbers of wild horses and burros have been swept off public lands authorized by completely absurd assessments, BLM cut adoption events over the last few years during a time when they needed this outlet most, the cost of capturing and holding our wild horses and burros in these mysterious sanctuaries continues to skyrocket……”
……… “Yet Congress sits stalled – refusing to investigate the Wild Horse & Burro Program or demand accountability, refusing to repeal the Burns Amendment, and refusing to open an investigation into these non-slaughter geldings being exported from New Mexico at record levels.”
”
Some speculate these geldings are being shipped to Mexico as unwilling participants in a popular form of Mexican entertainment called Horse Tripping. . . .most horses used for these events end up in Mexican slaughterhouses……”
“The Humane Society of the United States has recently released a video on the reality of Mexican Horse Slaughter, often performed by . . . .the final destination of the majority of these “non-slaughter” geldings will share the same fate of those so graphically depicted in this video.”
“In 1998, Mr. B- also recommended a sale authority that would be “sunsetted” once the numbers on the range and in the adoption pipeline were brought down to manageable numbers before more “politically correct” population control methods were again employed….”
Maybe Congress is waiting, as Mr. B- suggested, until a sufficient amount of America’s wild horses and burros have been “disposed of” before bringing the vote to the floor…. or maybe they will never repeal it – after all, it’s only the majority of the American people who so passionately love wild horses and burros and have showed their overwhelming support time and time again for mandating their protection – but does anyone in Washington care?
October 4, 2009 at 11:26 pm |
Janet:
I don’t think I would be as educated as quickly as I have been, without all your investigative postings. Wow. Many bloggers here have made me more effective with my letter writing & phone calls by having facts organized.
Have you done any research on the desert Burros yet? I need to get pointed in the right direction ASAP on what’s left of these little creatures, where they are being held, what happens to those rounded up, etc. My heart fell to my toes the other night when I learned to the last of the Mojave burros were zeroed out recently.
Morgan
October 4, 2009 at 11:34 pm
The American Herd website has lots and lots on the burros. Just stay in the current year and don’t go time travelling as I did!
October 5, 2009 at 2:54 am
Jan,
Thanks.
Morgan
October 12, 2009 at 7:50 am |
JF where are you? get in touch, please. Barbara, I have a feeling you are up to something good… mar
October 13, 2009 at 6:16 am |
JF, I am sorry I did not thank you for stalled. We have all said a little bit of what this says, here. mar
October 4, 2009 at 11:08 pm |
There are some souls who have cared, in the Senate and Congress. These are people who can think for themselves. Too bad the majority is waiting to be led. I wish I knew how they could be influenced en masse. The letters will help, being hand written. The emails, calls and so on are still good because they have to deal with them. But the Moratorium needs some defining. There is that pesky helicopter use thing that I would like to see gone for all animals’ sakes. Then there is the stop slaughter that gets hung up on the likes of an unwanted horse
epidemic. It may seem like the blog is static but it isn’t when it is informing and spirited. More letters, more calls, more emails. mar
October 4, 2009 at 11:31 pm |
Not static but very informative. Blog not static, Congress is static.
The following is from the “Document Questions and Answers About the Wyoming Wild Horse Gathers” (from “Gather Updates” as available page)
BLM>Wild Horses and Burrows>Information Center
“Why don’t you just add more land to the range so it can support more horses?
Wild horses can only be managed on areas of public lands where they were known to exist in 1971,
at the time of the passage of the Act.
How many wild horses are in Wyoming?
Wyoming BLM has 16 HMAs statewide and an AML range of 2,490 to 3,725 wild horses. Wyoming
BLM has an estimated wild horse population of 4,100 to 4,300 wild horses not including the 2009 foal
crop.
What is the Consent Decree?
In August, 2003 a consent decree was signed by the Attorney General for the State of Wyoming, and the
Assistant Attorney General, Environmental & Natural Resources Division, United States Department of
Justice regarding reducing wild horse populations in Wyoming to the AML. This out-of-court settlement
was executed through the U.S. District Court. Terms of Agreement to be completed to maintain
compliance with Wyoming Consent Decree include:
• If BLM determines through its inventory and projected reproduction rates that the wild horse
population are likely to exceed AML in the following Fiscal Year, the BLM shall request funds to reduce
the population to AML by December 15 the next budget cycle year.
If the BLM fails to reduce the number of wild horses to AML by the required date, the State may petition
the court to compel the BLM to do so.”
So does that means some of the roundups are in direct response to legal pressure from the state????
October 11, 2009 at 10:35 pm
In response to your question – sure sounds like it.
Hum? That is interesting. So who would trump who in this case? Federal or State?
October 5, 2009 at 2:38 am |
Sure. But Bah Humbug, anyway. The state was supposedly responding to info from BLM in the onset. Maybe the State does not know it has several choices and can choose. So says BLM. I think there is something weird about Jicarilla, too. A reservation has many ties to the Interior Dept.; BLM, Dept. of Agriculture, BIA. The roundup there is amid the dates for other roundups. It is on Forest Service land, and they may have requested to have horses removed. That is why many Burros are removed because people complain about them. Nuisance. So there is no time or place set up on the schedule. Mar
October 14, 2009 at 10:14 pm |
I posted this a minute ago somewhere else but it is from a basic USFS website:
http://www.fs.fed.us/rangelands/ecology/wildhorseburro/territories/Jicarilla.shtml
Just info. . . .not sure how much.
The USFS seems to perpetuate the same basic myths as does BLM website. Also, neither website mentions the Burns debacle, altho they mention other amendments to the bill!
October 5, 2009 at 4:55 am |
Jicarilla is also infamous for having a ‘secret’ military base, so the DOD is involved, too.
October 5, 2009 at 8:59 am |
Christine, not fair, you know something please share. Was this roundup put off to the 2010 date? It has different figures. Now, 200 horses and 150 to be taken?
Do you know where the corrals are? We have a site and have no info. There is Forest Service just off the reservation. And state parks, camping and that. What can you find out?? Mar
October 5, 2009 at 3:40 pm |
I’m not sure how you leapt to those questions from me saying there’s a ‘secret’ military base on the reservation.
I read about UFO stuff, and Dulce, NM, the ‘capital’ of the reservation, is one of the most infamous towns outside of Roswell for reported ‘secret’ military installations and ‘UFO sightings’, particularly under a nearby mesa. The main witnesses are local farmers, and soldiers who were assigned there who decided to speak out after a huge incident there a decade or so ago. But all I’m saying *here* is that there’s more than just the listed agencies that have interest in that reservation, and thus may have interest in the removal of the horses and burros.
October 5, 2009 at 7:26 pm |
Thanks Christine, that is very interesting in a spooky way. I was just hoping there was more info. But there was a large Interior Department Agency presence there. It is just a puzzle that horses may be taken off a reservation. One woman I met said her brother has wild horses on his land. We have a map location for
‘Jicarilla’ and it may be where this roundup was or still is to be… mar
October 5, 2009 at 10:43 pm |
hmmm why would BLM even list it if it is secret????????????????????
more questions than answers!!
October 9, 2009 at 7:05 am |
where does salazar get his high numbers of horses and burros – i read on one website that the blm does not do an accurate accounting of the horses – they go in and see some horses and assume there are more that they cannot see – is this crazy or what – i am sure a farmer or rancher does not go out to count his livestock and assume there are many more head that he cant see – he would want a complete numbering of livestock for tax purposes or for buying feed – this is crazy how blm does its work – they are sure lousey managers
October 9, 2009 at 3:01 pm |
My guess about using higher numbers is so they can take until all are gone and then say; ‘OOOpps, we thought there were more. Sorry, too late.” mar
October 10, 2009 at 12:41 am |
boy can i want to hear ginger’s comments on salazar proposal – what the heck is going on – horse lovers better speak up NOW or there wont be any horses left – mass sterlization – what about the gene pools – buying land in midwest – how about acreage in yellowstone and other public lands still left – do the ranchers need ALL OF OUR PUBLIC LANDS? horses do not damage the enviroment but cattle sure do and sheep – and i cant believe that a certain person who wants to save them goes along with every word he said – makes me mad
October 10, 2009 at 11:40 pm |
WELL GOT A DIFFERENCE PERSPECTIVE ON COMMENT I GOT – GUESS YOU HAVE TO DANCE WITH THE DEVIL IF YOU WANT TO SAVE THE HORSES – like i said i was taping national parks and people wanted to save grand canyon and they wrote letters to papers and congressmen and even school children wrote why the grand canyon shd be a park – it worked – think if tv like cnn or fox news would cover the wild horse issue and what the blm is really doing, getting rid of the horses so cattlemen can lease the land dirt cheap for their cattle, and show some of the bloody films of roundups and slaughter on the news – let the american people really see what is going on –
October 11, 2009 at 10:53 pm |
EVERYONE. MUST SEE – see new YouTube “Our Wild Horses II” – Foals, by pnickoles.
And I’m going with R.T., we will get more input and action with the “devil” if we are walking in the same direction. Different goals and outcomes desired, our best way to sway is in a positive and respectful manner (I’m guilty of not doing this – but I’m changing my ways). If you have not seen his most recent article – it is a must read! You may be a little down at first – but get back in that saddle, reflect, and be better and stronger than before – treat everyone (BLM and DOI too) as you would treat your horse (or in my case my dogs).
BLM and DOI have been lousy managers, no doubt – what do you do when you have a lousy horse? You build a better relationship and trust.
Just occured to me – maybe the advisory board looks like petrified wood because, well they are petrified of us, they feel this distain (even though we “suspect” they have been up to shananigans – innocent until proven otherwise – but don’t stop investigating). Just my thoughts.
Watch this YouTube – be inspired, THIS IS WHY WE ARE ALL HERE WORKING TOWARD THE SAME GOAL!
We must get ROAM passed !
October 11, 2009 at 11:48 pm |
as i mention i have been taping the national parks for a friend who does not have pbs – anyway learned a lot how our govt used to work – of course in those days u had many people protesting setting aside huge tracts of land for parks, especially yellowstone where ranchers used for sheep and cattle and lumber companies for lumber and even people looking for mines – but because of john muir and teddy rooselvet felt it was such a special place it needed to be saved yet commercial interests did come in and build hotels and the train went there but by and large it was saved and then another man who was a zoologist wanted to save the wildlife unique to the parks so again he was able to get wildlife protected – the thing that impressed me was a few people then who knew the long term affect if the land was not set aside were able to do it – john muir was formost in his fight to get things saved – his philophy was if they didnt do it then it would be gone – same for the horses – crazy idea – if roosevelt heard about a special place from john muir he could use antquitaties act and make it a national momement until congress finally got around and made it a park – so why not make pryor range where cloud is a national park or momement then blm could not round up – how about some of the other public lands where there are still horses – set aside as national parks – and how about bring mustangs to yellowstone – salazar complains there are no natural predators to take out horses – there are cougars in the pryor range – realize horses would be in danger frm bears and wolves in yellowstone yet they only take out old and sick – then the american public would be able to see wild horses if the areas where they are were declared national parks or momements and blm could not round up anymore – suggest if u can go order the national parks from pbs and watch – you learn alot on how to save wild life in this country – john muir said we have to learn to save the things that have a dollar value – any wildlife, land, etc.
October 12, 2009 at 1:19 am |
Another good one on PBS about this subject – you can watch on the internet – The Wolf That Saved America.
We need to study how Muir and others did this.
October 12, 2009 at 2:44 am |
Jan, One thing you must know, the foals are the easiest targets for the cats. There was one year that none survived. One year only one survived. The old still may die alone. The sick will be brought down, most likely by a predator. But it is not a simple thing and Ginger knows that foals you fall in love with may disappear but she has resolved that in order for the horses to have the most natural life, it is with predators. I completely agree. mar
October 12, 2009 at 3:14 am |
I think there are wild horses in Yellowstone – I think I Googled it once.
October 12, 2009 at 3:52 am
No horses in Yellowstone. You want to help with a project, contact me! mar
October 11, 2009 at 11:51 pm |
SAY CAN WE ADD OUR MUSTANGS TO THE ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST – AS THEY SURE ARE ENDANGERED!!
October 12, 2009 at 1:38 am |
I’ve asked that before too. According to BLM they are overpopulated – but that is based on faulty reports that BLM employees were forced to “fix” in favor or other intersts during the last 8 years. So that would have to be corrected first. Then there are the over 30,000 in holding.
October 12, 2009 at 3:54 am |
Jan, I think that Craig said this was a possible direction. mar
October 11, 2009 at 11:53 pm |
srry one more have any of you heard of Jean Albert Renaud – called a horse whisperer – he and madeline pickens have a movie coming out next year called the last mustang – he writes songs about wild horses – you can see a clip of the video on youtube
October 12, 2009 at 1:36 am |
Jan, Thnaks, It is a beautiful clip and a beautiful poem.
2010 seem so far away for the future of som many wild horses being rounded up right now – wish it was this week! or 2 months ago!
October 12, 2009 at 3:44 am |
i just have this fear that if that roam act is not passed – 2010 may be death nail for horses – the blm is moving so fast – i knew foals get killed but the blm keeps harping on no natural predators to kill off horses so they over reproduce – this is their idea – i went to that cattor site – boy was she wrong – she said the horses interbreed – i know frm watching wild horse films that the young colts when they are 2 or so are driven off so they wont breed with their sisters and their mothers and that the band stallions do not breed their own fillies – there again they are usually bred by another band stallion – only in a situation where there would not be any outside stallions might a stallion breed with hiw own fillies – horses know better – i was wondering how many people had heard of jean albert because he also seems to be in the fight to save the horses and if he had gone to washington – seems the word is not getting out to the general public unless they are reading some of the horse magazines – they never mention it on cnn – feel fox news is only station that stands up against washington
October 12, 2009 at 4:50 am |
Jan, Thanks for the word on Jean Albert Renaud, I put his videos up on my blog.
BLM is moving fast because we are trying to get ahead of them. I want to get someone, not necessarily me, out to the roundups. I want to do this quietly. like RT said, there are things we do at night. But I have my email up, alone here, below my name. Keep it and if you want to work on this project, revolving people and revolving donors, to go to roundups, get in touch. There is a lot to do. Any one here please come and let’s get real time information out to the world at every roundup with pictures and documentation. look at what a roundup did to all of us! OK? mar
October 12, 2009 at 3:45 am |
i think the senate and the house will be voting on health care bill this week – then maybe the senate finance committe can get back to ROAM ACT – at least i heard health care bill is in that committee
October 12, 2009 at 3:49 am |
if you go and get the national parks series from pbs – they ran it the last two weeks but the videos are out – john muir story is told how he first saved yosimite and then yellowstone but he also had a president that cared about the wildlife and the wilderness – we dont have that today – even the head of the dept of interior was involved – the first 4 hours of the national parks is mainly about john muir – ck your local pbs station and see if they may rerun it
October 12, 2009 at 4:37 am |
Jan, Sounds to me like you ought to start reading John Muir’s journals and books.
That will get you into his ideas properly. He is one of my heros. mar
October 12, 2009 at 5:31 am |
I know his journals are online – but will try and ck out at library – the thing i had heard about him i guess from my former brother and sister – inlaw they were kind into enviroment stuff way back in the 1960’s but never paid too much attention – of course here in california he was instrutmental in getting yosimite set aside – then my brother in law was a teacher and he taught at john muir high school in pasadena – the only enviromenlist i guess i really read once was silent spring by rachel carson – about the pesticides and birds – i did look up wild horses in yellowstone – looks like maybe the horses from pryor might come down into yellowstone but ken burns did not mention it in the parks series and he did a lot of coverage on yellowstone – as for going any place – i do not drive or have funds – but i do look stuff up and i can email people – just give me a letter you want emailed out to – i belong to a freecycle group here in the high desert and we have a very good cafe group too and some people kind of got political after the election and some people complained so our moderator set up a separate political group within our cafe group and its there i have been posting about the horses and several people were interested and one lady mentioned how her family was ripped off on their ranch property by the blm – the blm flew over the property and changed the boundary lines of their ranch and they were never able to get the blm to go back to the original lines of their deed so she is angry at them and when i mentioned the horses she said she wouldnt doubt anything the blm did – and some horse lovers have told other horse lovers so the word does get out but when famous people get involved because of who they are people listen –
October 12, 2009 at 5:45 am |
Thanks Jan, people are listening to you, really. Do not doubt it. This little group has been very vocal and we have struck nerves. sounds like you have a good system with that group tell them ‘hey’ and thanks. mar.
October 12, 2009 at 5:46 am |
how do you mean to approach roundups – the blm would not even let person from humane society see anything – you know i watch monsterquest – they put up little digital camers to try and catch monsters – they work real good and can be hidden and then u just download photos to off site computer – seems u could get some coverage that way or one of those planes like they use in iraq that fly over and use stalilites to get pictures of troop movements – why not blm – will ginger be going to any more roundups – i have been emailing another lady in new mexico that is working on a book that she hopes to bring out soon – i think you have found a great friend in R.T. but how about steven long from horseback mag – maybe he would go
October 12, 2009 at 7:53 am |
Jan, Email me at home. That has to be off the blog. OK? I do think Roger and I will head out to the nearest roundup and assess the how tos and see where we land. Patience will out. mar
October 13, 2009 at 5:50 am |
I have exchanged emails with Steven Long. He is there if we need to tell him a story, I am sure. He is a real journalist who leans a long way in the wild horses direction. mar
October 12, 2009 at 7:57 am |
i guess thats all it takes one tells one and that one tells someone else – found out there are a lot of horse people up here – you know apple valley was roy rogers town – there used to be a lot of horse farms up here now they are gone but still some horse people left scattered around thru the desert – when ever i do email someone or mention the horses i always stick in the cloud foundation website so people can go and read for themselves – i dont stick in any of the blm websites
October 12, 2009 at 8:15 am |
Jan, I used to drive through there in 1976 the only year I spent a winter in Southern Cal. Trigger was dead, but Roy and I think, Dale, were still there. Mar
October 12, 2009 at 8:53 am |
i did not move up here until 2005 and only came up in 2003 during the fire in san bernardino to stay with my daughter – its all changed now – more building – lots of new homes then that all crashed when the housing market fell so we have a lot of empty homes – over in phelan/adelanto area are more ranches and the forever wild wildlife sanctuary – i never got to see the roy rogers museum – but all the streets around me are named after them, dale evans parkway, happy trails hwy, etc. and i still feel his spirit here – we still have open land over in lucerne valley – have a horse friend there and told her it would be perfect to have a few wild horses over there – she said too much road traffic now -cant believe people used to come up thru that pass by horse and wagon – boy that must have been hard on the poor horses – still hear coyotes at nite – a little bit of the west left
October 12, 2009 at 9:30 am |
No coyotes make a sound here, but the elk were bugling tonight again. There was a pasture full of horses on the other side of town. Looks like it could be a rescue place. Thirty head, easy, a few mules a couple donkeys. I will check it out. Maybe ask to clean some stalls and work with a horse, just for the sake of it. I cannot shake the bad feelings I get when I think about all these horses have suffered. I am going to upload some fall foliage pictures we took yesterday in the Sangre de Christos. mar
October 13, 2009 at 6:04 am |
you know you go back and read the story of wild horse annie – she was just one person but she got the public involved and kids too – and she did not have the internet or national tv media – its just finding that one person who can get the ear of the right people in washington and say hey, look what you are doing to america’s treasure, our wild horses – need it all over the news and newspapers and magazines – we have so many outlets now that wild hrose annie did not have and yet she got the word out – i think steven long is your best shot as he knows and cares – and u have to get some of the people in hollywood too involved like robert redford – maybe you can contact geralldo on fox news – i know some wrote to oprah
October 13, 2009 at 6:24 am |
Wild Horse Annie was in Time Magazine and Life Magazine. I ate them up. They were the favorite mags of the 50s and early 60s. Without them it would have been even slower. It took time. We do not have years more. BLM knows it. It may be possible to reach Redford. His secretary. Get a private secretary to listen and you have a way in. Why not Miley Cyrus? She and her family love horses. mar
October 13, 2009 at 6:26 am |
can someone contact Billy Ray Cyrus’ press secretary? And Mile’s? Ask them to do it together. mar
October 14, 2009 at 10:35 pm |
i think no matter what branch of govt you are talking about whether the forest service, blm, or fish and game and wildlife – arent they all under the interior dept – even the bureau of indian affairs is under the interior bureau – and i have read on native american websites that dept does literally nothing for them – thank heaven a lot of the reservations are now allowed to have casinos so they do have income – i think in one dept of govt if a lie is told – it is carried down thru all divisions of the govt – they dont want ameircan people to know truth about a lot of stuff and keeping us in dark about wild horses and how public lands can surrport them – its a lie so cattlemen can get the rangelland – remember going in to iraq we were told about weapons of mass destruction – were any found – no – it was excuse to go to war – iraq did not cause 9/11 – more like syria, iran or saudia arabia but the saudis supposedly were our friends we got oil frm them so why not attack iraq – as an excuse – srry i just dont trust anyone in govt anymore – at federal level or the state – look what we got in calif
October 15, 2009 at 12:45 am |
Dont’ forget the Bush EPA report debacle. Yes, it is the leadersip that sets the tone and it does tricle down. I’m still hopeful, haven’t given up on Obama yet.
Remember too, that people resigned from BLM rather than change thier reports as was directed by the Bush Admin. For sure BLM has been without oversight for way way too long, but I’ll hold out hope that this will be one of Obama’ hit list, for lack of better word. We need to hold Obama to his promise about getting rid of unecessary and ill run departments.
And if that article was correct about Salazars arrival at DOI/BLM, the employees, some to many – we don;t know, but they want to be rid of the toxic culture just as much as we do.
On a humorous side, notice they are all 3 letters or numbers, EPA, WMD, BLM, DOI 9/11 (ok the 9/11 has the / in it)
October 14, 2009 at 10:38 pm |
i did get email from jean albert renaud website so there is another possibly for help to media