2010 Roundup Schedule & Radio Interview

12,068 horses scheduled for removal in this fiscal year- this is a record number. The BLM Wild Horse and Burro’s program budget was doubled this year but nearly all the additional funds are being allocated to roundups.  2010 BLM Gather Schedule

If you missed last week’s Howling Ridge Radio show, you can listen to Ginger Kathrens and Craig Downer among others on a special Pryors wrap-up radio show.

Also, all the Horseback Magazine articles are available here– they have done a tremendous amount of coverage- thank you!

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96 Responses to “2010 Roundup Schedule & Radio Interview”

  1. Janet Ferguson Says:

    What does the yellow highlight mean?

    Has anyone totalled this by each separate states as all the states are listed multiple times and all mixed up.

    • Marilyn Wargo Says:

      If Sue Cattoor wants people to check out the work her company does, I would like to invite her to post their work schedule so people can arrange to see them at work in various places in the West. Otherwise, her attempts to show how much she knows about wild horses, has fallen upon unsympathetic ears. Is she attempting to be transparent, the do tell all, Sue. mar

      • Mary Says:

        Sue Cattoor is trying to defend what has happened. The same as Matt Dillon of The Pryor Mountain Mustang Center, she has a positive SPIN on the atrocities that take place.

        I can not imagine what they will do with 12,000 additional horses when they don’t know what to do with the ones that they have. I believe when Ginger was on the Howling Ridge Radio on 9-30, someone had mentioned that they are planning to spend the entire budget to roundup more horses next year. Then how will they feed them?

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Mary, they are creating a situation they hope we cannot get the horses out of. That is why they are such a threat still and could be more so because they will do the worst. They create a fiscal conundrum, they must remove horses from their ravaged range where they are starving, and now they cannot afford to feed them, but, see… these are unadoptable horses, excess horses that no one wants. It would be humane to euthanize them…
        But they have made it clear they will ask for no one’s permission. This is where they interpret their own laws. And we have to get a head of them. mar

      • Mary Says:

        I know that they are setting up the situation as you have said and I agree that we have to get ahead of them.

        Today I was busy cleaning out my garage and I came across a book that I have saved since I was a kid. I never thought much of the book over all these years but yet I saved it. I am not sure I even read it all as a kid, I don’t remember but it was strange today when I saw it in the garage I told my husband about it and showed it to him. It is called ” Mustang” Wild Spirit Of The West by Marguerite Henry. It is dedicated to ” Wild Horse Annie” I brought it into my house today and now tonight a moment ago I opened it to see what exactly it was about. I really never knew. The page that I opened up to reads:

        ” The Horses are coming in closer and closer, trying to escape the plane, but now the truck takes up the chase! Like a long snake uncoiling, the rope whangs through the air. It catches the neck of a crazed stallion. Instantly the truck veers, jerking the horses head back, yanking him completely around and upside down. Through my glasses I see him-a splashy marked pinto. I see his eye-rolling fear, and the blood spilling from his nostrils. He’s up again, fighting with all his heart in him. He runs away with the rope! He thinks he’s free! But as he runs he pulls a frightening thing from the bed of the truck- a huge tire. It bounces and bounds after him, a living monster. Bucking and plunging, he drags it through the dust, fighting, fighting, fighting to be free. He almost runs away with it! But a second rope snakes through the air, lassoes him clear back to the shoulder, a second tire comes bumping after him. With a last burst of energy he lugs his two anchors until the weight of them pulls the ropes tighter and tighter around his neck, choking off his breath. He staggers a few paces and stops, head bowed in defeat. It has taken four men, a couple of hundred pound tires, and two giant machines to quench his spirit.”

        This book has a copyright of 1966. The part that stood out to me the most was that the picture at the front and the back on the inside of the book show a herd of horses running and at the front of all the brown horses in the herd is one white horse leading them all. As I sit here not I start to cry.

    • Margaret Says:

      I’m sorry I’m a bit confused. What about this bill that Senator Landrieu put into motion–the one that says all “gathers” need to be put on hold til next Sept, and that the BLM has to figure out a better way.

      This stuff looks horrid. Practically every last mustang will be gone. If they take all the horses next year–they won’t have anymore to “gather”, then what will happen to their funding?

      And why in the world do they want them in long term holding–leaving the American taxpayer to foot the bill for feeding them when its “cheaper” and better for them to be left out in the open.

      Other than our Senator’s supporting ROAM what more can each of us do???

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        I do not know why I am just getting a comment that was made nearly 10 days ago.

        We need to stop all the roundups. Keep the last horses and burros on their land. We need a moratorium for several or more years to untangle all this and brush up ROAM and get a better version passed. The opposition is hurting us when Horse people are so divided. Now, because there have been so many making a living off horse flesh we may change our long held revulsion of horse meat? I doubt it. But we have to get another chance to have the horses in the wild be enjoyed by everyone. If they are not wild any longer BLM thinks they have won. Mar

    • Marilyn Wargo Says:

      Yellow is burros…

  2. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    No, were doing that, JF? Thanks for putting this up. It is stark reality. mar

  3. Janet Ferguson Says:

    http://wildhorsewarriors.blogspot.com/2009/06/real-reason-behind-nevadas-wild-horse.html

    This is a blog (Wild Horse Warriors) plus link to original article –” The real reason behind removal of wild horses from Nevada.” Naturally it talks about energy.

    • Barbara Steele Says:

      This is exactly why Bob Abbey is the head of the BLM. He is from Nevada. One of the members of the BLM Advisory Board, Larry Johnson is from Nevada also. He was the guy who commented about a herd on a military base “where the public couldn’t view” when they were talking about some experimental procedure. Maybe somebody that was there got the direct quote? Anyway Robin Lohnes, chairperson reminded him of the “transparency” issue. He, Johnson has been on the Board since at least 2002 and is very outspoken in his obvious “dislike” for wild horses. I emailed BLM public relation director asking about the Advisory Board terms of office and qualifications and got a reponse quite promptly. Still didn’t answer my questions? Will ask again!

      http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/info/newsroom/2009/june/secretary_salazar.html

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Ms. Jo Bunny, elsewhere in this blog (I think that’s who??) talks about the BLM needing volunteers for the Advisory Board and other volunteers of various kinds. I have a link to the current members of the advisory board if you want it (haven’t used it yet. . . . ha)

        Also is that live meeting posted yet by the blm 9/28/09 It was supposed to maybe be up today

      • Barbara Steele Says:

        Please send me the link to the BLM Advisory. I have it somewhere on a piece of paper that I got when I was at the meeting. Also waiting for the Horse Talk live meeting. I had the “dubious” honor of being the first commentor called. I was really in a panic since they limited comment to 2 minutes instead of 3 so I had shuffle papers to try to make sense of my original thoughts. I also was aware that you were supposed to have documentation and not just say what your opinion was like calling for a moratorium (even though that was the first line on my paper) Just wasn’t enough time to make a valid point so BLM could say the public comments weren’t worth anything.

      • Karen L. Says:

        This should be the link to the Advisory Board.
        http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/Planning_and_Renewable_Resources/wild_horses_and_burros/advisory_board.Par.86757.File.dat/Members%20021709.pdf

      • Karen L. Says:

        Barbara, Also, I’m almost positive that the term of office for serving on the BLM Advisory Board is three years, with reappointment a possibility; but I can’t find my original source on that. The above link is correct for current membership on the board, with complete contact information and term expiration dates. Is that what you were needing?

      • Barbara Steele Says:

        I was trying to find out how long a BLM advisor could hold their position. Three years is the term but there are some (Larry Johnson) who have been on the board since 2002. Also wondering if retired BLM personel can be on the board. Head of the BLM Abbey has been on the dole for 32 years. Time to put him out to pasture

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Can you read my post, below, of Oct 5 6:37 p.m.? It is list of Advisory Committee. Let me know if you can’t find it. My copy says, “Your Comment is Awaiting Moderation.” (?)

      • Barbara Steele Says:

        Surprise, surprise—Here is a statement by Larry Johnson, who is now on the BLM Advisory—check out his occupation and and Director of Nevada Bighorns Unlimited.
        What more can I say—-

        http://epw.senate.gov/107th/joh_0410.htm

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Barbara, This says that wild horse management helps fund Nevada Bighorns Unlimited. We need to demand that this man be taken off the board. This is outright conflict of interest. This is disgusting. How many of them are like this dude? This is wrong all around, to be expected, and has to be delt with.
        I am going to start calling BLM again and demanding this guy is off the Board. Mar

  4. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    And when I look at the number of horses to be taken out of the Calico Mountains, Nev. I see the last big herd going from 3,200 with 2,800 taken out. Leaving maybe 300+. That is what I see when they remove horses from Red Desert Complex in Wyoming. That land will get leased for energy exploration. It is the horses’ land. There is a key in the removals, that we need to decipher. There is a defense or a point to use against BLM within the removal of the horses. It was not for the good of the horse. We keep saying it, BLM manages land and seeing no demand for the horses being on the land, and discouraging any who may, they removed their wards into the gray world and made that land available for cattle and game animals. mar

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      wait until this boomerangs. biology has a way of turning the tables when mankind decides to “fool mother nature.”

  5. Janet Ferguson Says:

    WILD HORSE AND BURRO ADVISORY BOARD

    
    Wild Horse and Burro Advocacy
    (Representative)
    Ms. Robin Lohnes
    Executive Director
    American Horse Protection Association
    1000 29th Street, NW Suite T-100
    Washington, D.C. 20007
    Work: (202) 965-0500
    Fax: (202) 965-9621
    AMHRSEPROT@AOL.COM
    (Term Expires: 01/08/2012)

    Livestock Management
    (Representative)
    Ms. Renee C. Taylor
    Taylor Environmental Consulting, LLC
    P.O. Box 1734
    100 S. Pou Road
    Evansville, Wyoming 82636
    (307) 237-2522 (Phone)
    (307) 472-0914 (Fax)
    renee@taylor-environmental.com
    (Term Expires: 06/14/2010)

    Humane Advocacy
    (Representative)

    (Term Expires: 11/06/2009)

    Natural Resources Management
    (Special Government Employee)
    Dr. J. Wayne Burkhardt
    2410 River Road
    Indian Valley, Idaho 83632
    (208) 256-4437 (Phone/Fax)
    rangeswest@ctcweb.net
    (Term Expires: 06/14/2010)

    Veterinary Medicine
    (Special Government Employee)
    Dr. Boyd Spratling
    Starr Valley Route
    P.O. Box 27
    Deeth, Nevada 89823
    Phone: (775) 752-3824
    boyddvm@wellsrec.net
    (Term Expires: 01/08/2012)

    Wildlife Management
    (Representative)
    Mr. Larry Johnson
    Black Eagle Consulting, Inc.
    1345 Capital Boulevard, Suite A
    Reno, Nevada 89502-7140
    Phone: (775) 359-6600
    Fax: (775) 359-7766
    Johnson@blackeagleconsulting.com
    (Term Expires: 11/06/2009)

    Wild Horse and Burro Research
    (Special Government Employee)
    Dr. Vernon D. Dooley
    Northwest College
    231 West 6th Street
    Powell, Wyoming 82435
    (307) 754-6234
    dooleyv@northwestcollege.edu
    (Term Expires: 06/14/2010)

    Livestock Management
    (Representative)
    Mr. Gary Zakotnik
    68A Eden West 1st South Road
    Eden, Wyoming 82932
    Home/Fax: (307) 273-9481
    gnjzakotni@gmail.com
    (Term Expires: 11/06/2009)

    Public Interest
    (Representative)
    Ms. Janet M. Jankura
    3550 Saint Andrews Lane
    Richfield, Ohio 44286
    (216) 571-6743
    Janet.jankura@hiintegrity.com
    (Term Expires: 01/08/2012)

    (Updated 03/31/09)

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      they meet AT LEAST twice a year. there are more than just the two meetings (per year)

      • jo bunny Says:

        in response to your earlier post regarding volunteers on the advisory board…..two places to look at…..
        rt fitch’s blog site, under article by steven long, “ROAM Would Expand BLM Horse Board to Include Activists, Term Limits”
        & steven long’s horseback magazine site, under archive, “Now it Gets Political” (which was written just before the blm advisory board meeting).
        both articles discuss having humane advocates on the board AND limiting terms of all members of the board (some of them seem to have been there for years)
        looking at the list there should be at least one humane advocacy position filled…..this was just PART of what i was getting at when i was talking about advocates working WITHIN the blm

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Please use this link and listen to this meeting of the Bureau of Land Management’s Public Meeting of last November, 2008, part 1.

        http://www.sncatprojects.com/Clients/Wild_Horse_and_Burro/Pt1/

        There are some very disturbing comments made, not only about funding sources of the roundups of the horses, but of the fact that when the BLM went to put certain reports previously sent to Congress on their website a staffer, “D. Wade” found “errors” and in putting statistics up, they seem to be changing info they sent previously to Congress! I would certainly try to get a hold of the original reports to Congress.

        Also, they are trying to use statistic which will show an “overpopulation” of horses over the years, as indicated by the chaimans(?) suggestion to use figures from 1971 (total horse pop) to present to show robust “health” of herds and growth of number of individual horses. What needs to be shown the public are not lies, but the bigger picture, of how cattle and other interests are REDUCING THE LAND ALLOWED FOR THE HORSES and taking place that the horses should rightly have, as a designated range with the horses themselves as the primary species on that range, and the range be managed in favor of the horses, rather than removing the horses, after the beef cattle and other interests have made the range incapable of sustaining the horses.

        Transparency must be created not by the BLM but by an objective reporting service that gives a balanced picture to the public about what has actually happened over the years.

        Please, also be aware that, to quote the book “Nobody’s Horses (2008) by Dr. Don Hoglund, “Only some of the free-roaming horses in the western states fall under the federal protections of wild-horse law. The other free-roaming horses, east or west of the Mississippi River, are on sovereign lands, military reservations, park-service lands, federal lands not covered by wild-horse law, or private property. In these various places, the horses are either not protected by any law (as in the case of those designated as feral) or they are only protected by state or local laws.”

        Why is the BLM apparently involved in removing horses from non-public lands???? As would appear to be the case after listenint to the above videod statements.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Maybe an internship could be provided that would be for credit.
        The Advisory Board is volunteer I understand and their expenses are paid for travel. (?)

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        You all may want to check your email, if you signed up to hear from Mad. Pickens, she has a press release for the Oct. 17th SMU football game to feature the trained mustang she is giving to SMU “Mustangs” and a letter to all high schools that have horse related mascot names to get involved with saving mustangs. She has a new organization at http://www.MadeleinesMustangs.org and te half time at the game will be all about the wild horse fiasco. mar

      • Barbara Steele Says:

        She sure knows how to get publicity. Now the wild horse advocates need to “coat-tail” on her publicity and bring the rest of the story to the public. Since the Cloud film is coming right after this there is a wonderful oportunity to do so!

      • Barbara Steele Says:

        When I questioned BLM by email about the Advisory Board and who gets on I was told that “we select the most qualified people. Evidently there are no term limits. The BLM Advisory Board originated in Nevada. Bob Abbey was the head of the Nevada BLM at that time. Here is a link to a 2001 document. Part way down you will see that the BLM sold public lands for large sums of money around Las Vegas and some of the money was distributed to other government agencies like N.P.S., Fish and Wildlife and Conservatin areas while 85% went towards purchasing “environmental sensitive lands”. I wonder how many wild horse got evicted from this land deal. Is this how the wild horse range has been down-sized?

        i/www.saveourwildhorses.org/PDF/Blm-Press/BLM2001/Release2001-47-51_May-2001.pdfndividuals”.

      • Karen L. Says:

        Barbara, Thanks for following up. Yeah, I suspected that there were no limits on number of terms. If they select the most qualified people, it is sadly comical that the Humane Advocacy position is vacant. Does it mean that no one is qualified, or that Humane Advocacy is not at all important to them? They should, especially at this point in time, realize how a vacancy in that postion reflects on them!

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Barbara, Once upon a time the Interior Dept. and its offices could not sell public land to private owners. This has gradually changed. Once there were public meetings and people often fought ski companies and other developers who wanted land close to their operations. It goes on now all the time. It became easier and easier. Mar

      • Karen L. Says:

        Barbara, In my back and forth conversation with Mar, above, I reread the S.1579 version that I linked at 1:48 A.M. 10/7 for her. I discovered that in Sec. 8 the Advisory Board is addressed strongly. There are changes that include expanding the board to 12 members; the terms will be for 4 years; and no one can serve for more than 2 consecutive terms. It will be known as the Joint Advisory Board.

      • Barbara Steele Says:

        Karen–That certainly is a step forward. I need to read S. 1579 more carefully.
        As to population control—my thoughts on the matter go back to Assateague ponies. Faced with herd reduction and public outcry the N.P.S. offered about 4 scenarios. One was a round-up and removal but the one accepted by all parties was PZP darting in the Spring. Each mare was darted for several years until well grown and then around 6 years of age, darting was stopped until a foal was produced. After that she was darted again so there is a one foal policy. My “fostered mare” CoCo, the only dun/buckskin on the island lost her foal before birth so she was not darted and success—she had a foal this Spring. I am waiting for a picture of the foal in November when naming rights for the foal will be auctioned on Ebay. Anyway, though this may not be the ideal wild horse herd it is at least in “second place” since no animals will be removed. Though attrition (death) the herd will stablize at the so-called substainable number in 7 to 8 years. Here is the inherent problem. The government agency determines the amount of forage the horses require and use. Another note in the papers that I found was that some of the overgrazing “could” by caused by white tail deer. So the herd is downsized based on faulty numbers. I found in the management study also mentions that if a catastrophe happened outside horses could be brought in for herd viability. Of course, only a fence separates the N.P.S. herd and the Virginia herd and it is known that horses have been known to swim the fence and wind up on the other side so replacement here would not be a problem!
        While the ROAM act might not be perfect it certainly beats what is going on in today’s wild horse world.
        A note on the Pickens Plan–I would think she would have some mares produce foals. Who would want to view a bunch of geldings!

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Barbara, Thanks for bringing this out again. I do realize I am a purist. But I will go down fighting for the horses rights to freedom at all levels. The ponies have a finite area and do not swim far… The wild horses, even in an area like the Pryors, have a larger life scale. But the way the ponies are cared for is remarkable after all the ups and downs they had. People are proud of them. I want that for our wild ones. If they had to have a zero population growth, and I do not think that would ever work if lions are present, then I would want them to be as careful as they are with your mare in the field. She was considered an individual and given a second chance. I see all this as evolving. But the horses will always pay the price when we mess up. I am tired of seeing that. So I set my hooves in the dirt and I will not budge except to get a better and better deal for them as time allows. But some time is needed to make ROAM better. BLM be da…mar

      • Barbara Steele Says:

        Assateague Island totals 48,700 acres of land and water, 8,400 is in Virginia. N.P.S. ponies on Maryland side are not fenced. Chincoteague VA ponies are fenced in 2 separate areas to keep them off wildlife bird areas. Still it is hard to round them up due to marshes, water and dense shrub areas. They will be rounded up this Friday and Saturday for vet check and worming on VA side. I’ll be there and report back.

        Lots of websites devoted to them. My Chincoteague pony Kayak is the 4th photo down on this site.
        http://chincoteaguepony.hostingrapid.com/sabino.html
        He was with his mama in the pens—daddy not in picture. He is now 2 years old-13hands2″ and growing. Just thought you should take a look. Time for some diversion. (The mention of Larry Johnson raises my blood pressure!)

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Karen, there are things we all may find wanting. 6 weeks ago what we were beginning was simpler and now we see all the imperfections. I am asking about how the committee, not horse experts, will approach redefining some of the less than perfect portions. I know, we have a link somewhere that has how the committee works. I have filed it all away. What you found is not so good. But, in a better world, we will not put people like Larry Johnson on a horse and burro advisory board. He is a joke. Can you see a wasted seat like his on the board for 8 years? Conflict of interest is the “Big Horns Unlimited” he is President of??? The Board might be made up of people from the districts the horses come from who are pro horse. mar

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        THAT’S THE GUY that makes me hurl everytime he speaks, he is absolutely vile

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        But all interests must be represented if it is to work. Horse advocates need to get on there, now, it’s THEIR turn to reach for their barf-bags

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        THEIR meaning the likes of L.J.

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Credit? College? Anyone who gets tapped to be with BLM is going to be silenced.
        Don’t you think? If working within BLM is still an option. I really see this entire wild horse and burro management going out to those who are working for their freedom, now. Even if WH&B office is still the heading inside BLM, though I do hope not, it will be a new world. The faster the better. But if there is a way for a legal mind to use this information, maybe it will lead to something being accomplished for the horses and burros. Have you given this to TCF lawyer? Mar

  6. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Barbara, Nothing BLM does will accommodate us. Changing the comment time was just to make everyone falter. It is a good thing to have tried and done what you did. The first time I ever spoke was at a Forest Service meeting about a dam in the Gilas. It was nerve wracking. Thanks for the licorice link. Mar

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      Two things

      1) The BLM Advisory Committee might consider providing a written copy on their website of all publicly submitted comments to them by the public, if possible.

      2) Ask people to state their names as they speak or comment during the meeting.

  7. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    JF, BLM has a system in place. They make the deals. They SEEM to be the proper authority even when they may not. Transparency in the records may be misleading, The records of those involved in hauling horses may be needed. Is there an investigation? Mary posted about an investigator within BLM? They should not police themselves. There are many horses and burros that have not been under BLM protection. They have been pursued and removed relentlessly. ROAM does want to cover those animals but I am not sure if it does or they want to be sure it will. The records for these non BLM roundups would be very interesting. mar

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      In that meeting they talk about a “Tab that has the public land statistics” you can link to on the BLM website

      It says it will be “up” by April 2009. It would be a “report of animals adopted and animals removed by State”.
      They also mention an annual report on all aspects of BLM mgt (not just horses) that is posted on the website.
      Now new policy on gelding “geld all for adoption with exception of rare ex Kigers, Spanish, Sulphurs (?). Also did you, fair reader, know that PZP can be given to animals meant for the food chain? This may cause the better contraceptives developed later to either have to be as such or be kept out of the program?? just an idea.

      HSUS is doing a research study Sand Wash, CO and Cedar Mountain UT. Is it a contraceptive study (I gues, MW you touched on that earlier, i.e. your comment “out of sigt of public??”.

      Comment made “after age 30 the horses disappear from the computers.” I am beginning to wonder about all this recordkeeping. . . and interpretation issues thereof.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Also on the video a statement is made that their long term holding facilities are full (as of last November 2008), as capacity is 22,100 and inhabitants number 22,200, including, as of the report discussed, 9,750 horses older than 11 years of age. Robyn asked, as of 6-22-08 that same number was, 10,135. Was the difference due to die off? Reply was, some were die off, some disappeared from computers if older than 30 years old. Bizarre

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        What is holding up the posting of the recorded meeting from September, anyway? I wonder if BLM has actually released it or not to the HorsePower station!

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        If it were the intent of BLM to shuffle and hide thousands of horses, i am sure they could, can and did, the point, to do so right under our noses. mar

      • Karen L. Says:

        Janet, The studies being undertaken by the HSUS are not out of the public eye. I started to link several articles on these contraceptive endeavors, but there are many, and can be seen if one wants to Google “HSUS equine contraceptive study”. I believe that the contraceptive research was being done originally at the University of California at Davis, but am not positive about that. Also, in the Horseback Magazine article provided on this blog site, pp. 37-38, of “A Cloud On Pryor Mountain”, the author does an excellent job of describing the adversarial relationship of the HSUS to the BLM. He uses the word “symbiotic” to describe the BLM’s need for help from the HSUS. The HSUS is critical of the BLM and only tolerates them for the sake of the horses. At any rate, the HSUS contraceptive studies are highly public.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Karen L,
        Thank you for info

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        JF, Because you are pursuing this, maybe you should contact Tom Gorey who was able to give me the roundup schedule. He may have to help those who have specific requests for information. You should try him and be patient and polite, he may be able to shed light on all this. 202-452-5031
        you can do it. He is head of PR for BLM. mar

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      I got it from the video of the November 2008 meeting that they don’t want burros on the lands because they don’t want mules.

      The horses “mate” with the burros and then BLM has mules.
      What’s wrong with mules. They are good people. I can understand not wanting burros to be mauled by stallions, however.

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Does this really happen or is this another smoke screen? They had some overlap in some very harsh country, but I have never heard of this. Most species will not do this. People make them have mules. mar

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        No details were given but if you listen toward the end of the video you will hear it discussed. Ginger also mentioned this in passing on the radio show, about burrows being victimized by horses! I don’t know. . . it’s a sad state of affairs.

        You might try to listen to the video & see what you think. (?)

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Or either Ginger mentioned it in the public statement on the June 2009 BLM meeting Part 2 (video on Horse Power). she mentioned it somewhere, anyway —

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        I will try to listen to this later tonight, JF. I know we may end up within this cockeyed system. I just think it needs to be ‘taken over’ by friendly parties. mar

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        JF, Then you mean that Ginger says this happens? Like you, i say, what is wrong with mules? But inter species mating is not real common. I would love to blame PZP for this. There is no mare in estrus so they find wild donkeys? Mar

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        No I think it is an accident ?

  8. Barbara Steele Says:

    From Madeline’s website–
    In contrast, the Bureau of Land Management, the agency with primary jurisdiction over the animals’ management, is fixated on continuing with its outdated management model, one which rewards private ranchers with lucrative contracts to graze rounded-up mustangs and burros on private grasslands. Not only enormously expensive to American taxpayers, the model is rich in irony; our wild horses and burros are being removed from their natural range to make way for privately-owned livestock to graze those very same public lands.
    That lady doesn’t mince words, even in Texas—and she has some BIG Names to back her up.
    Just hope the Mustang does his part during the half time show–football stadiums are alot of noise1

    READ MORE
    Join Madeleine and tell Secretary of the Interior, Ken Salazar, and the BLM that you support this cause.

    TAKE ACTION NOW!ABOUT MADELEINE
    My view is for a wild horse sanctuary that will be a tourist destination similar to our National Parks where Americans and tourists from around the world can come, observe and be a part of this great part of American history. We can use this treasure to promote eco-tourism and at the same time provide for permanent retirement and management of these American icons to which we owe so much. I, myself, am an immigrant to America and came because of America’s freedoms, can do attitude, and respect for its open spaces and natural heritage of which these wild horses are a part. I look forward to being a part of preserving this for generations to come.

    To read more about Madeleine Pickens visit her website.

    • Marilyn Wargo Says:

      But she is not stopping the roundups. Is she a ROAM supporter? It would run contrary to her “PLAN”. For the horses to get back where they belong and to have a new management program is ideal for the horses and burros. mar

  9. Barbara Steele Says:

    She does say “Not only enormously expensive to American taxpayers, the model is rich in irony; our wild horses and burros are being removed from their natural range to make way for privately-owned livestock to graze those very same public lands.”
    I get your point that her sanctuary if full of mares and geldings would die out at a given point so obviously she would continue to provide a place for BLM to continue to keep dumping their “excess” horses. She should be directly questioned on this point.

    • Marilyn Wargo Says:

      Barbara, (she is a very rich lady) She seems to be in a fantasy world about the horses. I do not want to see her succeed. Does she support ROAM? We do. mar

      • Karen L. Says:

        Mar, The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Under the ROAM Act, the BLM would be required to find new marketing strategies for the horses and “be permitted to establish sanctuaries and exclusive use areas”. ROAM helps the horses in various ways, but it forces the BLM to think outside their limited paradigm box. ROAM can get the roundups stopped and it also opens other doors. The Secretary of the Interior will have to oversee conditions pertaining to the sanctuaries.

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Karen, Then I still object to a fake reserve where there are no family units; mare, foal and stallion. Reality is wild, the other is a drive thru horse pasture. For these animals to be who they are, and that is who we are saving, they need the wildness. I do not need to like or dislike Mad. P. I just favor the horses as they have been, in their own ranges. Roam would not want geldings in place of bachelors and stallions? This is a natural horse we are saving. Burros, too. And a rare Mule if need be… mar

      • Karen L. Says:

        Mar, I am not talking for or against Madeleine either. Way back during the first few days of this blog, I synthesized and listed about 12-14 provisions of the new ROAM Act and posted them. Items #3-5 address sanctuaries under the DOI; additional rangelands; and the REQUIREMENT that the BLM “develop and implement enhanced fertility control”. I don’t know how the family concept for the horses would be addressed, but ROAM will require “fertility control”. If one supports ROAM, then that is a provision.

        I believe that the Pam Nickoles photography site lists the provisions of ROAM as well. She does a good job of making them “readable”.

      • jo bunny Says:

        i think that this issue is somethign that needs to be looked at. i see a lot of advocates doing work to pass ROAM, to stop the BLM roundups, to keep the BLM from slaughtering the horses they have, & all that, but i haven’t seen much in the way of what to do with all the horses (33,000? 36,000? no one—not even the BLM—can say!) who were once free, who have no chance of being adoopted, & who are currently in BLM holding centers (ie, internment camps)…many of them for years.
        i, too, am not crazy about ms. pickens’ disneylandish-sounding wild horse preserve, but i have to say, it’s a whole lot better than what those 33.000 or horses have now, don’t you think? (assuming that they are even still in existence; some folks believe that they have already been “sold off”). if they are given some several thousands of acres to roam more or less freely, is this not better than sitting in BLM holding pens, or worse, being sold to slaughter??? at least she has come up with some sort of option for these guys & i don’t see a lot of anything else out there at the moment.
        i keep looking to see if there is something going on in the wh&b advocacy world to create land trusts or preserves for the horses, free of BLM hands, that, while not the tens of thousands of acres they had before they were captured, at least it’s a better option than what they have. that place in new mexico where stiles went seems to be a sanctuary that gives mustangs at least some sense of their former lives & returns them to a limited “wild”…the nokota horses have that kind of protection…..we need to be looking at ways to create land trusts or private wild horse & burro sanctuary/preserves for large sections of land & give it to the horses who have already lost their freedom…..with all the farms & the family owned land that have gone belly up in the last year due to the problems in the economy, you would think that this amount of land is out there…waiting for someone to do something with it……..& from my point of view, being a gelding or a sterilized mare living in freedom HAS to be better than anything behind bars, crammed into pens, with no room to roam, & in custody of the BLM.
        while we are looking to stop the BLM in rounding up the horses who are at the moment free, i think that we need to also be looking at solutions for those unfortunate horses who WERE once wild, now kept in pens, & have no options ahead of them.

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Karen, In many cases there is already a predator and prey relationship that horses and MTn. lions have. This has been skipped over by Matt and BLM in favor of drugs. That does not mean that natural predation isn’t better. If we keep mucking with the horses they will never have a chance to be called a returned native species of wild life. think about it, They want to kill off the wolves and they hunt back the cats so the horses have to have PZP? It all stinks. These need to be free running wild horses and they need to foal naturally. This whole idea of drugs is bad news.

        Jo Bunny, We want to release them onto their own lands again. I have been writing about it here, we need to see ahead to that time to take them home. To Restore them to their lands. It is justice. mar

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Jo Bunny, Why do they need different land? They have their own. There could one day be a series of wild horse National Parks and people would be involved. That adoptions may still go on is possible, but no helicopter roundups. Just because BLM did them wrong do you think we cannot right it? We have to. Their land was stolen because we did not give the BLM enough reason to keep them on it. Like making money. Tourism. Of course they are in cahoots all over with big game and cattle and soon, gas and oil leasing. There is a huge legal boondoggle here, but we untangle it instead of walking off and starting over. If ROAM is only for artificial birth control of horses, I am not for ROAM. If it means allowing horses to have there numbers controlled by predation and nature, it can be done with a minimum of meddling. Mar

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Jo Bunny, Why do you think the captive horses have no options? ROAM is about restoration of lands and horses together. That is why it is so important. Mad. P. confuses the issue. Maybe she is an egomaniac and wants to be known as the savior of wild horses. That horses have been held for years is a crime. There must be a time and place that the people who have done this are charged with the manipulation of public lands and wild horses resulting in all this mess.

        Remember, BLM lies. The horses have done really well on their own, that is why they are still there and need to be returned. mar

      • Karen L. Says:

        Mar, Of course natural predation is better. Matt, PZP, and Madeleine P. Pickens have nothing to do with my point that ROAM, if signed into law, will ALLOW sanctuaries and REQUIRE fertility control. And, as a health care professional, I can assure you that fertility control can be accomplished in a variety of ways. You said you were for ROAM—if you look at the bill, then those provisions are part of it unless taken out by committee.

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Karen, I am trying to find a finite point, I think you can tell me. If horses are on their own range and there is the ability to allow natural predation, they can have it… But in New sanctuaries or places created for some of the long held horses, they would be required to have birth control. That is what you have said? Mar

      • Karen L. Says:

        Mar, No, I said that in the universal sense of biology/zoology, that natural predation is part of life and therefore better. I believe that would be best for the horses. Whether I think that or not, the provisions of ROAM state that the BLM must “develop and implement” enhanced fertility control as is presently used by a number of private sanctuaries. I do not read the provisions to state when and where that will be applied. It looks to me like they are saying to use fertility control when needed, whether on the range or in new sanctuaries. I am not sure; please read the provisions for yourself if you haven’t. Try http://www.aowha.org/documents/s1579.pdf

      • Karen L. Says:

        Sorry, Mar, that link shows a complicated version of the new bill. Try going to Pam Nickoles site to find her abbreviated form.

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Don’t worry, Karen I have a background in biology, I was trying to follow what you said. I will retackle ROAM now that I see a thing like this that will prevent horses from ever being declared a returned native species. You see? This is another very bad thing and excludes horses from future consideration to run on any wildlife corridors that may be created in the future. I am for the people who have wanted, to get their chance at improving ROAM. Wild horses are not a free place to try out new drugs. But in all fairness they are treated like that is the only thing they were good for.

        This is a point people need to ponder very carefully and then make a decision. The horses have been messed with enough, in my opinion. Any long running program to administer any type of pop. control will alter who we are dealing with. mar

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Karen, the last page of the link you gave is very specific to uses of pop. control. The portion on new lands and places for horses is also. I will have to go over what I have and think about this, again. Mar

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Karen, Craig Downer’s interpretation runs with mine as a wildlife biologist. I have waited for this to happen, now it has. There is a real division here. mar

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        MW Did you notice Craig D’s entire letter to the BLM is posted on the R. T. Fitch blog?

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        JF Yes, I read it awhile back thinking how lovely his vision is, but it is his interpretation I like. He said ROAM needs refining the other night with Ginger on the radio.

        Did you realize how ROAM has no provision for horses to be truly wild in the predator/prey relationship that has been in place for centuries? Mar

      • jo bunny Says:

        mar, * I * want the horses returned to their lands, too! i may be TOTALLY wrong about this, but when i read the text for the roam act, i got the impression that any land that was to be given to the horses was land for the CURRENTLY free horses. i could not find any reference to what to do with the horses that were already in holding. i remember something about captured horses only held for 6 months, but no where did i see anything about the 33,000 or so that are ALREADY captive. this is where the confusion lies, at least in MY brain. we are supporting roam, we are supporting land for the already free horses, what about the rest of ’em??? does roam have provisions for these captive horses?? am i missing it??? (i was reading the actual text on THOMAS, & i’m not strong on legal-speak, so that could lead to some of it, too!). please don’t think i’m dissing the work that anyone is doing. i would LOVE for those horses to be returned to their lands as much as you, but i just wasn’t seeing that provision in roam…& other than madeleine’s move to create the mustang sanctuary, i hadn’t seen any thing that was an answer to this particular issue. i sincerely apologize for offending you with my abovce comment! please, if there is something i’m missing out on, or am totally ignorant about, let me know!

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Jo Bunny, No offense taken, I was worried that your frustration was getting to you, it got to me yesterday. After reading what everyone said I felt like I was being too idealistic. I am trying to get an opinion from others about just what they feel needs to be addressed by ROAM that is not. I have always thought that the mares would come home. That geldings were at such high risk from all the rumor we hear.. how many are left? Now they will put them back on the land of previous horses?? BLM should just stop. I can’t believe what they have perpetrated upon the horses and the American public, all while we were saying “no,stop!” I have been trying to see in my mind’s eye, a return to many homes by many horses who would be simply better off on their range, regardless of what has been done to them or their condition. The geldings left should have that chance. I think that people will have to help truck them back. I want them to crash these damned holding places and take horses away. But they may end up on a big ranch somewhere. It is confounding and upsetting. Keeping the wild ones free is failing because we have not stopped this machine that BLM is. This breaks my heart. I know you and everyone feel the same. What becomes of them? What do we do for them? Offer all the kindness we can and freedom if possible. I read between the lines what Ginger and Makendra write, and I think that they feel these horses could be brought home if their range is still there. I think that all the emptied places need to processed to discover where the horses’ lands have been contracted out, where they can be recovered quickly and where the land is still open. Freeze brands will identify where horses came from. Bring them back. And I agree with you, this needs to be addressed and steps taken to undo what has been done even while BLM is still doing it. Adoption pens and all of them need to be inspected. What gets me about Mad. P. is she has the resources to put together a crew to get out on the road and find, inspect and document where the horses are. She could also back a crew to go to roundups and film and record the contractors actions, as we really need this. It would not cost so much. But no one has done it. I would go out on the road and do these things to gather information if someone would sponsor me. So, I have thought about this every day and want to take action in those ways as we are stuck watching horses being further abused, stolen from their homes and neglected in holding.

        A small crew of a couple people could travel and check out holding and another set of crews could go to all the roundups. Who has the money to back this? Maybe less than $3000 a week for all 3 crews. One would be less frequent the other two as ongoing as roundups. One wealthy person could make this happen with ease. Others could contribute film, batteries, motel rooms, gas cards. We need this now. Mar

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        On another subject is Mary Landrieu a “good guy” or a “bad guy.”

        Reading the Fitch’s Blog I cannot tell how they feel about her stance on the horses.

        Also I looked at the Fitch’s videos on youtube. There was a horse that looked just like the one I used to have (exact same blaze). She would be 46 years old now. Do you think it was the same one?

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        JF, Because my horse was stolen from me and likely sold to slaughter, but I had no proof, she was just gone, I would look for her and see her in the faces of others, even though she would have to be in her 30s. It is unlikely, not impossible but more likely your heart wanting to find her. mar

  10. Janet Ferguson Says:

    http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/wild_horse_and_burro/wh_b_information_center/Fact_Sheet.html

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      There’s a video on this link showing the short and long-term holding areas.

      The mares are in separate areas from the geldings.

      No stallions. This would appear to mean that the individual horses are being looked after, not allowed to reproduce, and that all the horses will no longer contribute to the gene bank. All the lines in long term holding will die out.

      But the individual horses are apparently looked after. I don’t know if they are put in corrals for the night, if they are corralled all winter or what, but the video shows them streaming across the verdant prairies.

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        JF I have never been able to open that video. I need a plug in to do it. I wish I could see it, but it is propaganda. have you considered contacting Tom Gorey? You might have a good source if you try. He is Public Relations and has to bridge the gap. mar

  11. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    The Picken’s plan may end up being a reality for a time, if our wild colts and stallions are all now gelded. I change my stance in the light of clarity and reality, I hope she can help those who will never come home. The urgency to stop the roundups increases with them administering PZP-22 for 2 to 3 years of control.
    We need to save the reproductive health of the these horses, that was BLM s job. They failed. Their directive changed to accommodate the demands of ranchers and hunters. Why can’t this be seen in Washington, BLM changed horses in midstream? mar

  12. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Barbara, Great picture, sweet baby. 13.2 is big! Thanks, he is a lucky pony.. Have a good time, I envy you the sea breezes. mar

  13. Barbara Steele Says:

    http://powelltribune.com/index.php/content/view/2677/1/

    They (BLM) aren’t planning on using any humane observers and by law they don’t have to. Yep, that’s what they say—-Taking this herd to under 100.

  14. Janet Ferguson Says:

    I wonder if they vote in order to decide whose position goes forward as an official “recommendation.” If so, would the new configuration, the new Advisory Board–have equal votes?

    Also I just talked to BLM Washington, D.C. office and they have the Wild Horse and Burro Act on their website, as of 2006, which includes all the amendments, including the infamous Burns Amendment. You go to blm.gov>Wild Horse and Burro Program>Info Center>(photo)>Act of 1971.

    Maybe each of us needs to sit down by the fireside some nite soon and read every word of this.

  15. theandbetween Says:

    I just came across a press release from the Theodore Roosevelt National Park:

    “Feral (sic) horses from Theodore Roosevelt National Park are scheduled to be sold at public auction at Stockman’s Livestock Exchange in Dickinson on Friday, October 23 at 2 pm. Approximately 90 horses will be sold to reduce the herd in the national park to about 70 animals.”

    http://www.nps.gov/thro/parknews/loader.cfm?url=/commonspot/security/getfile.cfm&PageID=189901

    These horses are managed, I believe, by the National Park Service and not the BLM, so would not be on the “Gather Schedule” posted here.

    • Morgan Williams Says:

      theandbetween:

      Thank you for this post. I was wondering I could not find any information. It was not BLM roundup. I heard about this gather right after the Pryor Mt. Range round up, but could not find out the facts.

    • Marilyn Wargo Says:

      theandbetween, Yes, we had information weeks ago about this but no details. It appears the park is not trying to destroy its herd. Here is another park that manages its own horses. Thanks for giving us this link. At least this does not infuriate me. They may have taken the lead of the ponies from the coast under NPS. Seems so. Barbara gave us info about a safe anti fertility drug that was used on the ponies, to. mar

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      Might these park horses be purchased by killer-buyers or is that a given in these situations???

  16. New Cloud Program on PBS- Sunday, Evening Oct. 25th « Says:

    […] to your editor requesting that wild horses be preserved and protected in viable wild herds.  12,000 wild horses and burros are to be rounded up over the next year alone and removed from public lands in ten western states. […]

  17. New Cloud Program Premiere & New Cloud Book Available « Says:

    […]         editor requesting that wild horses be preserved and protected in viable wild herds.  12,000 wild horses and burros are to be rounded up over the next year alone and   removed from public lands in ten western […]

  18. Cloud: Challenge of the Stallions- Wild Horses on PBS this Sunday « Says:

    […] to your  editor requesting that wild horses be preserved and protected in viable wild herds.  12,000 wild horses and burros are to be rounded up over the next year alone and   removed from public lands in ten western […]

  19. Honor Hannon Says:

    How many of us are planning to go to the Sparks Nev. BLM meeting from the Santa Rosa (CA) area. If there are enough we could rent a bus, but car-pooling is a possibility also. Lets overwhelm the BLM wirh wild horse and burro advocates who are polite AND powerful!!!!!!

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