Q and A with Ginger Kathrens

Many thanks to Tracie for putting all this together! I hope this helps everyone with some clarifications. My apologies for the delay in getting this up.

Click here for PDF file: Q&A with Ginger Kathrens -9.11.09 interviewSand and Chalupa's foal


130 Responses to “Q and A with Ginger Kathrens”

  1. Janet Ferguson Says:

    This was just fascinating. I read every word. Thanks for posting!

  2. Barbara Steele Says:

    Thanks for answering my many questions. Read it all and will pass it on!

  3. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Ginger, This is a wonderful interview with so much information. Who is Tracie? She did a great job with you. I do wish this was out sooner, but having it now is compensation for many things going on. Thanks so much. I am glad you kept at this ‘story’ on the horses out of love and respect. Mar

  4. Lyn McCormick Says:

    Ginger, this is the most comprehensive, forthright, frank discussion that I have read since I got involved in the WH & B issue. On behalf of myself and my wild horse friends here in Fort Collins, we support you and thank you for all that you have done. It will be an honor to “make a stand” on the hill alongside you and all of the other wild horse and burro advocates at the meetings in Washington.

  5. CStone Says:

    Ginger, I agree! Fascinating and re-invigorating interview!
    I do have one very confusing question (maybe only ‘important’ to ME):
    you stated that EXCLAIM (the primitively-marked grulla), who “gave birth out of season in September” –in 2005, (as I recall) ‘to a big strong beefy foal-colt’— then you said, “and she DIED.”!
    — Well, I have thought that BLM#9605, “SACAJAWEA” was really “Exclaim” [described “light Grulla, 2R+1L wither bars, leg stripes”], with “Cortez” in 02, with “Merlin”-2003-07. The colt-foal of “Sacajawea” in 2005, appears to be #2533, a (yellow)-bay-Roan, sm star— as 07-bachelor, “Fools Crow” (doesn’t well match Foal pic of 9/30/05– when described in 2007, but….I can’t find another colt to match either 1.)

    Also (OK, 1 more): I have always thought that “BJ Star” was the name of “Moshi’s” foal of 2002 (after her 1st PZP shot), as this is name & #-2210 listed as a “bay-dun, Rh-pstn filly-foal” beneath “Moshi”-#9902, after she joined “Pierre”‘s band between May—Nov-2002 {as pregnant-Moshi-9902 was with “Santa Fe” in May-2002}. I assumed the bay filly, “BJ Star” was sired by Santa Fe, then born with Pierre?? {& Santa Fe becomes “bachelor” in Nov, after she leaves.}[Both of these stay with Pierre–in 03, “BJ” to “Zeppelin”–2005 (pic as a bright-bay), then to “Bo”–2007–2009.

    And, “Sand” was 1st daughter of Red Raven–Blue Sioux in 2001, [#2123 beneath Blue Sioux-9319 in May-02 IN Cloud’s band], who was left with Cloud’s band for awhile, when her mom-BS escaped back up the mtn to join Red Raven & have their “bay-roan colt”-foal, on ~6/2/02. The name corresponding to #2123 as a “light Red-roan filly Yearling, with 3 socks & star”, that is ‘left’ listed in Cloud’s band by Nov-02– is “Chalupa” (per 2007 list). So, I thought that “Chalupa” is “Sand”, by description and by ‘place-assoc’?? [This # moves to “Trigger” band in 03 & 05, then to “Bo” by 2007].
    OK, the RU of 2009 occurs: sev. mentions are made of “Sand” AND “Chalupa” with “Bo”; and 1 says “BJ Star” =”Sand”, ‘daug of Red Raven’??? and Your pic from this page (web-names) the 2 sm horses as “Sand and Chalupa’s foal”??? {1 Black, 1 Dun}

    So, Yes, I’m obsessing a bit…. but I had THOUGHT I had it all figured-out? 🙂 Are all these totally wrong?
    [Was EXCLAIM the “2-tone Racer” (grulla, race-star, withr/leg stripes, 2tone MT), born 1995? or “Shockwave” (mousy-grulla with Bolt of 1991) instead?]

    Thanks! — & I’m still trying to arrange a TRIP to DC/Arlington! Will get my Conquistador-shirt there, if poss.

    • Morgan Williams Says:

      Wow. You REALLY know those Mustangs! Very, very impressive CStone. I have not seen your name before. How are you involved? In your own organization or associated with The Cloud Foundation?

      I am in the same urgent mode as you. Desperately determined to get to DC on the 29th. I did order my tee shirt and it arrived yesterday. It is a beautiful shirt and very attention getting. I bought an excellent suitcase at a rummage last weekend for 50 cents. The meeting is all set with my Senator in Washington. I just gotta get on a plane somehow!

      • CStone Says:

        I’m no one special, Morgan— just a big fan; with a big heart & too small wallet, I’m afraid!
        Makendra sent a 2007 survey listing of the horses, bands, ID numbers, that I requested when I ordered the books and DVDs for my daughter at Christmas.
        I KEPT searching long enough, & found “surveys” to download of years 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, + some other spurious lists; however– these have NAMES only for the Stallions– the others have numbers, sex, descriptions.

        I’ve been trying to correlate all the names and family bands, using info from Ginger’s books and DVDs, her emails, plus material from Matt Dillon’s blog, Carol Walker’s & other bits. It’s been fun! although often frustrating! {BLM or Mustang Center names OFTEN are not the same ones used by Ginger}.

        However, in piecing together their histories & families & pictures–now I feel that I KNOW them even more personally, and feel a crushing amount of responsibility and fear for them, especially this month!
        I only wish I had the Ways or Means to DO SOMETHING!!!

        At least, Senator Byrd and Congressman Rahall are representatives of my state of WV— so I know they are doing ALL that they possible can do; and their office staff are very understanding and involved, as well!

        May the Great Creator–actually be a HORSE— and may he/she shine an extra bright star of strength to light your paths! Good luck to ALL!

        [GRUMPY & RAIN, I love you!!!]

      • CStone Says:

        By the way, I THINK I have solved my confusion over “Sand vs BJ Star vs Chalupa”, if you are interested!

        Looking back over all the descriptions, and the new “round-up adoption list”— I believe that the 2 names were accidentally reversed on the 1st list from Oct 2007! {No list names the horse we know as “Sand”.}
        So, it makes more sense NOW that “BJ Star” IS “Sand”, born in 2001 [all other 01 foals have “B” names]. Then “Chalupa” is “Moshi”s foal of 2002 [02 foals have “C” names, as well]. I just took the 1st list for granted, instead of trying to reason it out well enough!

        Still don’t have answer for EXCLAIM vs SACAJAWEA, though! Does Anybody out there know her/their story??

        Another interesting Tidbit (from Matt), that I Never would have guessed: STILES, of 1998 is the first foal of VELVET {Scarlet}, born 1995!! The sire stated to be a stallion named “Cocomo”, now deceased; and Stiles is “his only remaining offspring on range”!! I haven’t figured out “who” he is, yet—{not Plenty Coups, Prince, Boomer…} but I’m working on it! 🙂

        Nóro go hûl, Mellon Nîn ~~nóro go hûl !
        {Ride like the Wind, my Friend~~ Run like the Wind!]

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        CStone, I love it, May the Great Creator be a Horse!! Mar

  6. Susan NY Says:

    Thanks for this, it’s really helpful. We really appreciate all the time this must be taking, to get the truth out with all that’s going on.

    What I’m getting, it’s impossible to have an evidence-based debate with the BLM and its subcontractors. Down is up, up is down.

    The BLM needs to be taken out of the wild horse business and replaced with a separate management system that is accountable to Congress and devoid of the conflicts of interest and history of corruption the BLM has demonstrated over the years.

    This whole thing doesn’t pass the smell test. Where is the payback? It’s more than arrogance for arrogance sake. Thousands of “geldings” crossing the border to Mexico, trucks returning on a drug pathway?

  7. RJ Daum RPLS Says:

    Contact for Imus
    He is now on Fox

  8. Ginger Says:

    To: CStone
    “Sacajawea” lives in the dryhead by the paved Hwy. “Exclaim” is the BLM name and yes, she was a foal when Cloud was a baby. She was named Exclaim for the pretty star on her face. “Sand” is the BLM name also known as “BJ Star.” Chalupa is a beautiful bay. They are both with Bo (or were with.) Gotta go to Montana now. Best to you- Ginger

  9. Nora Morbeck Says:

    This was wonderful to read!

    These issues are so complex, and I felt a real sense of clarity coming out of this discussion.

  10. Susan Says:

    What an interesting topic and I thank you for bringing this to my attention. I
    feel so horrible that we in America think more about land and money and not
    the animals, I have made several calls and sent several emails and will do all
    I can to stop this roundup. Thank you again for your informative opinion and
    your caring heart.

  11. RJ Daum RPLS Says:

    The heroes ride over the field, to the Pryors and all the places wild horses are held captive . Some can follow bloodlines to Kazakhstan, the Nez Perce now have that bloodline.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      are you a land surveyor and engineer?

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        It’s none of my business, but when I googled your signature that’s what I found. You work on pipelines, unless that is not you on the google search.

        I am sorry if I have offended you by this question, but couldn’t help asking.

      • RJ Daum RPLS Says:

        Appreciate your help
        Flatwillow , Montana is where I grew up.
        http://www.flatwillow.com. Brief bio
        R. J. Daum was born and raised at the edge of wilderness in rural Montana. As a child, he was exposed to The Crow, also called the Absaroka or Apsáalooke, a tribe of Native Americans who historically lived in the Yellowstone River valley and now live on a reservation south of Billings. He grew to appreciate their connection to the land,brotherhood, courage, and honor of burial places.

        After returning as a Marine during the Vietnam War, R.J. Daum decided to raise a family and devote his study to promoting and protecting indigenous cultures and wild mustangs. He currently works as a registered professional land surveyor in the State of Texas.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        I am reading a very old book, published in 1940 originally by the Texas Folklore Society (my library copy is a facsimile second edition, 1965). It is a collection of writings “of the day” (being approx mid to late 1800’s – early 1900’s) on “Mustangs and Cowhorses”, edited by J. Frank Dobie, Mody C. Boatright, and Harry H. Ransom. The text is preceded by a map of Texas “Stephen F. Austin’s Map of Texas”; 1829; it shows vast areas where mustangs roamed with detailed handwritten description on the map. Texas was once apparently almost covered with “immense herds of wild horses” in places. The writings include such authors as W. A. Whatley “Mexican Color Terms for Horses” to W. H. Hudson (author of Green Mansions) “Cristiano, a Sentinal Horse” to Will James “On the Trail” and many many others! The descriptions of the mustanging “outings” by J.W. Moses “A Mustanger of 1850” (which appeared as a series of 4 articles in the San Antonio Express) were really appalling! There must have been an ethic of adventure at work on those outings where life and limb of man and beast were risked in the name of adventure!

      • RJ Daum RPLS Says:

        Lived in the Pryors with the Mustangs
        Lonesome Dove is a story of Texas Mustangs to Montana. First place to sell them historical was my grandfather’s ranch on the Flatwillow. As a child my first mustang looked like Cloud on that ranch.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Wow. What a story. Thank you for the “big picture!”

  12. jan sterling Says:

    to me the blm is doing everything backwards – the adoption is tomorrow and then the meeting on monday – why not have the MEETING FIRST and then the adoption – doesnt make sense to me unless they are planning to make sure all unwanted horses are sold for slaughter before meeting on monday – just makes me sick – i have been emailing friends in other countries and they cannot believe how usa treats our national treasures and our wildlife – even russian has better animal protection than we do

  13. Janet Ferguson Says:

    Just got an email from The Animal Law Coalition. It appears the Senate Has “stepped up”. does anyone else feel this is really good news?????


  14. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    This is great. I hope it does not stop ROAM. When was this? Yesterday? Thanks, i wish this would help stop the roundups. BLM should stop if all this weighs against them. Mar

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      This indicates a September 25, 2009 update describing Senator Landrieu’s work of late.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      Hope, like you it doesn’t stop ROAM. However, it seems to have an urgency and bandaid effect on the worse concerns and dangers of the moment for the horses, right??

    • Barbara Steele Says:

      Update Sept. 25, 2009: The Senate has voted to pass H.R. 2996, an appropriations bill for 2010 for the Dept. of Interior including the Bureau of Land Management (“BLM”).

      BLM manages the nation’s wild horses and burros. In the bill the Senate made clear to the BLM: Appropriations … made [in this bill]shall not be available for the destruction of healthy, unadopted, wild horses and burros in the care of the Bureau of Land Management or its contractors or for the sale of wild horses and burros that results in their destruction for processing into commercial products.

      This mandate was proposed by Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-LA). This provision must still be approved by the U.S. House.

  15. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    The ink for this passage of this bill is;

  16. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    I sent the link it did not go through, How come??

  17. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    I was trying to put up the info on the vote, it was 263 to 146 and has 22 cosponsors, It now goes to the Senate as S1915. I have never been able to put up a link here they are always blocked, do not know why. Mar

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      I go to my browser, copy (edit/copy) then “paste” in the text of my message. I guess that is what Christine is saying, but I don’t know what URL means.

  18. Christine Says:

    Try putting just the URL instead, not a link. The link will generate automatically.

    Finally got the Foundation’s CafePress stores ironed out, they should appear as a link on the webpage soon I’m told. More items will be added as I finish the graphics for them.

    I went ahead and put my own store together for my image, too, just click on my name.

    I love the interview, its really good. Say, is anyone going to do a running update or anything at the adoption tomorrow, even maybe via Twitter? I’d really like to get a blow-by-blow of what’s happening to the older horses at least.

  19. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Thanks all, I know a URL is an address, and I need to learn to cut and paste in a hands on way. I have detailed descriptions on PC but I got Mac. I will try this link again to the House Vote; aowh.org/notices/hr-503a.html

  20. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    no highlights to link and go… still not doing it right. ah well, that is the web site, above.. mar

  21. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    I don’t do cut and paste, that is me problem, thanks, now I understand…mar

    • Christine Says:

      Oh, sorry, I thought you had. But that’s the way to get links into the comments here.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      before you cut and paste, first “highlight” what you are going to cut and paste, like you would do for text you want to change to a different font or something. After the URL is highlighted then you go edit, then, copy, then you go to wherever you want to copy it TO like TCF blog, then go edit/paste. You can do it!

  22. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Nice art, Christine, I hope you guys make lots of money for the cause in DC… mar

    • Christine Says:

      Thanks! Well, I’m not going to be in DC, much as I’d like to be, or would like to be at the adoption at least…

      I do finally feel like I’m doing something for my mustang’s people, tho.

  23. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Thanks JF, I will attempt this sometime and see if I can pull it off. Christine, sorry you can’t get away, I am wishing I were going to the adoption at Britton Spring because there are horses I will never get to see in the wild. But maybe Conquistador will be free with his extended family. It was great that Mary Landreiu had some things to say to the senate. She is doing more than most. I am hoping we can stop BLM in their tracks. But I wish it were yesterday. Yet the progress needs to be celebrated because we get so burned out on this at times and each step is won because you all have been at this for weeks now. Mar

    • Barbara Steele Says:

      This is what I found at the Library of Congress website–didn’t find anything about slaughter of wild horses but that could be an amendment that hasn’t made into print. Here’s what the bill says concerning BLM. Sounds like it is opening the door to Madeline Pickins proposal and also telling BLM that they can’t continue in their current management policy. They have 1 year to get it right. Just my take on the bill—

      Library of Congress Bill # 2996 Senate

      The Committee recognizes the need for a substantial budget increase of $26,873,000 for the wild horse and burro program in 2010 and provides the requested level of $67,486,000. However, the Committee notes that the costs for gathering and holding equines to control populations on public lands have risen beyond sustainable levels. The Committee directs the Bureau to (1) consider private proposals for long-term care of wild horses and burros; (2) create a bidding process among such proposals, and (3) prepare and publish a new comprehensive long-term plan and policy for management of wild horses and burros that involves consideration and development of proposals by non-governmental entities, by September 30, 2010.

      The Committee encourages all Federal agencies that need and use horses to fulfill their responsibilities to first seek to acquire a wild horse from the Bureau of Land Management, and, prior to seeking another supplier for usable horses, document why the Bureau cannot meet the needs of the inquiring Federal agency. The Bureau is also encouraged to develop an expedited process for providing wild horses to local and State police forces.

  24. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Yep, and the link I was trying to post has this and the anti slaughter bill, Just Google “House passes anti horse slaughter bill” then you can get it here, Barbara! mar

  25. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Oops never mind that was 2006, but what happened to that?? mar

  26. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Regardless, this time around we need to get it all through. ASAP. m

  27. Christine Says:

    IIRC it died in Senate committee.

  28. Christine Says:

    I think we’re the only ones here tonight – I pray its going well so far and will go well tomorrow and Ginger and all will be able to keep the families together as much as humanly possible.

  29. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Christine, Are they up at Pryor? Will they have their horses with them and ride up to see the wild ones? I feel lots of apprehension because i don’t know what to expect. Mar

  30. Christine Says:

    No, the adoption and sale is tomorrow, in Lovell, WY.

  31. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    As a matter of fact it has me in tears because I wish i could be there in case they need another body to adopt a horse or something.

  32. Christine Says:

    I feel the same. I know that even $25 might buy one, but I don’t have the money to get there let alone help in that way – would be a 1200 mile round trip for me I pray that the BLM doesn’t pull any BS on them, either.

  33. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Yes, BLM has been vindictive. The interview with Tracie that Ginger did made so many things clear, and they did some turn abouts on her at the roundup, turn abouts on the horses. I keep a little anger and the rest is a desire to help. I know how you felt until you got your art on all those tees and things. I will go check out Jicarilla tomorrow. Mar

  34. Christine Says:

    I’m still frustrated at not being able to be there, not being able to do something more DIRECTLY…like maybe even adopt one of the young ones for myself as well as some of the others for the Foundation.

  35. jan sterling Says:

    was out most of day with sick cat but did tell people to email the blm – to save the horses – i think i read on one site maybe here that the horse slaughter bill is dead – was held up too long so they have to start all over again – if you go to horse and rider website think that is where i read it – they are doing a issue on cloud will be out first of october – boy if i see it going to grab a copy – hope walmart carried it

    i was hoping maybe cnn or fox news might cover tomorrow and monday meeting and tuesday but there is a lot of other stuff going on this weekend in washington too – just thot if people actually rode up to capitol on tuesday it would make a big impression and would catch eye of media

    i am so angry at our govt – just want to scream at all of them – wrote blm and asked them if next they are going to try and get rid of buffalo as ranchers say they carry disease which as been proven not to be true

    praying for ginger and the others who could all make a difference if blm will cooperate

    • jan eaker Says:

      just FYI, the Montana Livestock ASSN has any Bison that strays outside Yellowstone’s borders tested for Brucellosis, if they test positive, they are sent to slaughter; this disease was introduced by a herd the Army brought to Yellowstone when they were ordered there to protect the last survivors of the more than 30 million animals that once roamed America.I watched to program on PBS recently about this. the disease is not fatal to elk or Bison, but is fatal to cattle, pretty sad, bison don’t understand fencelines or boundaries, however it shows the power of the Western Livestock ASSNs and the power their lobbies have in Washington. this power i believe partly or mostly drives the BLM in their “management” of our horses.

  36. Christine Says:

    Hey Jan.

    Do you mean this? http://www.animallawcoalition.com/horse-slaughter/article/693 Was linked to above. I’m afraid Horse & Rider isn’t a magazine you’ll find at Walmart. The big book stores like Barnes & Noble and Borders do, tho, and you would have a good chance of finding it at any farm and feed stores, or newspaper stand type stores.

    I’m going to watch Hidalgo tonight. I know its mostly very very exaggerated, but seems appropriate for tonight. We need a miracle for the horses.

  37. jan sterling Says:

    sure that is where i saw it – how do i go to horse and rider and bring link here – i usually clik on heart on aol and then email to email address but this is a blog – can go look up link and type here i guess

  38. jan sterling Says:

    srry it was horseback magazine about the bill that died and about publishing about cloud

  39. jan sterling Says:

    have friend who sent me a link with in defense of animals action center – talks about the horses and cloud and has a letter at bottom you can send

  40. jan sterling Says:

    is there any way the rest of us americans can overturn this power of the livestock association – it is not right that one group have precedent over the rest of us – they must donate a heck of a lot of money to washington to their senators from their areas – like that burns guy from montana who started this mess

  41. Christine Says:

    That’s why we’re working so hard to get the ROAM Act passed…at least as much as each of us can. That’s how we get things changed.

  42. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Just a word about Bucellosis, elk also carry it but they are money makers for states from hunting. The only time the disease can be spread ( and this is what i have read several times over the years), is during birth, so you need a cow present at the birth of a buffalo or and elk. This is worse than a bad rap on bison. Did you find any contacts with twitter? If you hear anything tomorrow, Christine, will you post it?? Mar

    • Linda Says:

      Actually, the big problem with elk is a form of chronic wasting disease, also deer. I live in Estes Park, CO and we have a gracious plenty of elk here. Hunters are encouraged to have their meat tested when it is shot. I don’t eat elk.

  43. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Sue Cattoor is in an ugly business. Yes, matt and Don are very dedicated to the horses. They get upset,too and they get put in the middle a lot. But, to put down what Ginger has done is stupid. She made enough people aware at the right time and it saved the lives of horses. She is like many people in the West; defensive. Matt gave us information every night the roundup went on. I had peole in Ireland and Austria reading what he had relayed. Ginger stands on her own in a different capacity. She has done much and put her money where her heart and mouth are. I think that it is not a comparison to make. But i do not care what she says, she lives off the money made from the removal, abuse and deaths of our wild horses. mar

    • carol poole Says:

      I think SC is obviously trying to stop folks from donating to TCF and trying desperately to discredit Ginger.
      The Gazette did print my response to SC’s letter. I was in contact by email with SC before and during the roundup in an effort to appeal to her sense of decency and mercy for the horses, hoping to persuade her to convince her husband to refuse to do it. I was stunned at the comments she emailed back to me in regards to why this roundup was necessary and also to her comments about Ginger and the TCF.
      After reading her emails, there is no doubt in my mind that SC needs some serious counseling.
      Here is the link to the comment section for anyone wishing to respond to SC’s letter.

      • jo bunny Says:

        How odd I find it that Ms. Cattoor is talking about PROTECTION of the wild horses when, hmmmm…excuse my bluntness, but hasn’t her husband pleaded guilty to the hunting of wild horses & to illegally rounding up—how many was it?? a few HUNDRED???—wild horses, packing them into trailers, & hauling them down to a Texas slaughter plant for a nice little profit.
        & how odd it is,that Ms. Cattoor seems not to make mention that Ginger herself has credited Matt Dillon with the work that he & the Pryor Mountain Wild Mustang Center have done for the horses, not only in print but in some of the webradio shows on which we have heard her in the past few weeks….not to mention the link to PMWMC on The Cloud Foundation webpage.
        Has Ms. Cattoor even bothered to LISTEN to anything that Ginger has said? or read anything that she has written? Everything I have seen, read or heard by her is how she & TCF credit ALL OF THE PEOPLE & ORGANIZATIONS, & yes, there are many, who have come together to work to support the wild mustangs. I’ve not heard her say ONCE that she considers herself with being “the one taking credit for protecting” the Pryor Mountain horses.
        Then I wonder, how many wild horses has Ms. Cattoor worked to protect??? how many has she saved from abuse? harm? death??? how many has she stood up for??? or worked to stop from being run down the mountain at breakneck speed followed & harassed by a helicopter??
        I’d like to tell Ms. Cattoor that Ms. Kathrens has worked tirelessly to save the horses. She isn’t doing it for the glory, the fame, the money. I’m sure that what she makes for one documentary is far less than what the Cattoors make in one day of harassing horses in their helicopter roundups. Ms. Kathrens is doing this work for the horses…..plain & simple. Too bad the Cattoors can’t find it in their hearts to do the same.

      • Barbara Steele Says:

        I replied also and my comment was printed(allybarb) Mustangalley had a great quote from Jay Kirkpatrick and Patricia Fazio on the fact that the wild horse originated on this continent and is a re-introduced native.
        My comment that the use of the word “feral” is discrimatory and is used against the wild horses by groups who want to get rid of them.

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Yeah, you said it, Jo Bunny. mar

      • carol poole Says:

        Hi allybarb! mustangalley here! I found the comments I posted on the Billings Gazette website in the testimony from the House of Representatives hearing on HR 297. Here is the link to the entire entire piece.


  44. Christine Says:

    The Cloud Foundation has a twitter, but I forgot to bookmark it. That’s the only one I know of.

  45. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Ginger, Makendra and Christine, (The twitter for TCF is cloudfound). Good luck tomorrow and may the horses you save run free again. I will be thinking about you until I hear the outcome. I hope we get some sleep. Mar

  46. Christine Says:

    Good Lord, is that article a big MEOOOW! or what! Ms. Cattoor bein’ catty!

    Its been a combined effort all along. Heck the idea for the gathering at the Capital came from a person commenting on this blog, and its been the scores of people calling everyone under the sun that’s been the real pressure. Ginger and the Foundation just happened to be the ones who had a high enough profile to light the fire.

    • thecloudfoundation Says:

      This is a group effort for these horses all the way! thanks to everyone!

      • Morgan Williams Says:

        After speaking to Ginger, Makendra, Christine, Ben, Valerie and Carol personally, I know you are speaking sincerely from the heart. Every person is an asset in this fight who is on the side of saving our American Mustangs and Burros.

        Just from my perspective, Ben is a very tender hearted and hardworking intern for Ginger. He has always been such a kind young man to speak with at TCF!

        Christine amazes me with her cheerfulness and cool head during even the toughest days of this long battle.

        Great job holding down the fort Ben & Christine while everyone else hit the road!

  47. jan sterling Says:

    cant believe that woman – thinking ginger was in the fight for the horses for money or whatever – and like the rest of us horse lovers shd just stay out of it and let the blm do their bloody job and destroy our wild horses – she probably enjoys the money her husband is being paid – because of the all the criminal acts going on against our wildlife, mostly horses and burros – we are just suppose to ignore what washtington is doing – someone said a country fell because good men did nothing – thats how i feel about the blm – if we dont stand up and overturn the practice of the blm – they will destroy more of our treasures – the buffalo, the wolf – they dont care – get rid of animals the cattlemen dont want – under the guise of management by the blm – srry people i am just sick of the way things are done in washington and they think we wont say anything – wish i could go to wash next tuesday – no way to go but we go in spirit

  48. jan sterling Says:

    i have been praying for the poor older horses that ginger has filmed over the years – that they get adopted and set free – they will never be happy shut up in a pasture or corral –

  49. jan sterling Says:

    if you are still up or are up early tomorrow before sale starts – give fox news a call and see if they are coming i emailed them to come = phone is 1-888-369-4762 – they hate stuff going on in washington too – dont have number for cnn but hope they are there too as well some of the other networks

  50. Christine Says:

    You know, its a sign the Cattoors are feeling threatened that they’re saying such things. They stand to lose their helicopter roundup business if the ROAM Act passes.

    Both are a good thing. It means we’re right on the money and making a difference.

  51. Susan Longstreth Says:

    I have made several calls and sent several emails to fox news and my local news and several others. We need more media attention and perhaps people
    will finally get it. I am waiting to hear back from someone who is such an animal lover and I believe has a lot of pull and power I hope she helps. I will
    keep you all posted if this works it will be the answer to our prayers. You all
    are so special to help this cause, kudos to all of you.

  52. carol poole Says:

    Great article from RT Fitch and on right hand side of page is a link to cspan video of Sen. Mary Landrieu’s comments in regards to BLM handling of WH&B program.


  53. jan sterling Says:

    i have friends in all my groups praying for the horses that they will be protected and not sold for slaughter – none of us have any money to help but we can pray and write and call

  54. jan sterling Says:

    i agree with the word feral – groups use it like for feral cats they want rounded up and destroyed and instead several groups adovate having them fixed and taken care and fed and leave them alone – why kill them if they are heathy and not hurting anyone – the mindset in this country is that of if no body using it or taking care of it – get rid of it – what good is it – think that applies to animals especially – in pets there is a huge over population of dogs and cats because people just dont spay and neuter – that is a problem where education helps but with the horses they aint bothering no one and they have lots of land to run on – no body living on the land or using it – so they shd have it – and yes the horse is native to america – they have found bones back to about 14,000 years ago – no other area except maybe monglogia has wild horses – bible lands had wild donkeys but never horses – they are unique to north america

  55. jan sterling Says:

    just got email from friend – go google the catus cuties – 5 little girls sing the national anthem and other songs – too bad they cant sing in the senate to get the ROAM bill passed

  56. jan eaker Says:

    twitter update!!! Conquistador is adopted and will be out of the pens later tonite, nothing yet about any of the other horses, the twitter link in a reply above will get you the latest news, this was posted about 3 hours ago,

    • Morgan Williams Says:

      Praise God for the Pryor Mt range adopton & auction going so well, due to the extreme efforts of many wanting to keep the eldest 13 together for future release. I can’t imagine what it must have been like to be there at Britton Springs, to KNOW the immediate danger is finally over and transport the Mustangs out of those prisons. I would have cried a river.

      My thoughts and prayers go out to all the adoption sites all over the USA on the 26th. Every single one of the Mustangs and Burros were worthy and deserving of proper forever adoptive homes.

  57. jan sterling Says:

    was so glad to hear that he was adopted – how about the mare grumpy – i keep cking news nothing on cnn nor fox news

  58. jan sterling Says:

    interesting qutiotation about the horse and the wind – the arabs believed that allah created the horse from the west wind because their horses – the arabians could run so fast

  59. jan sterling Says:

    i believe the great Creator is God of the old testament and He did create the horses and animals before He made man – the horse, more than any other animal, has been man’s companion thru the centuries, ridden to war both in the old testament and new and even into modern times – horses were still being used up and into world war one and two – they have always been a symbol of help – even today your car is still judged by how many horse power are in the engine and they are raced around the world in races – i bet any of those mustangs could run the legs off a thoroughbred today

    • Morgan Williams Says:

      Amen to your thoughts Jan Sterling.

      I believe in the God of the Bible. After each day of creation, He ends His day with looking at His work and saying “and it was good”. When God created man, God did look upon man & woman and said “and it was very good”. However, just few chapters later in Genesis, God said He was very sorry for creating man. Man was using their free-will to choose evil instead of good. Mankind was wiped off the earth with the exception of 8 people in an ark FULL to the brim with 2 (or 7) of each species that contained the breath of life. To this day, it is still free-will within mankind that we must use wisely to chose life and not death.

      My Cherokee heritage give me very strong feelings of being tied to the earth and all creation. I have been taught the huge responsibility of wise stewardship for all the Creator has given to man and obedience of all the Creator’s commandments.

      The horse has substantial meaning and purpose in the Bible. The first animals on the new earth and in the new Heaven are horses.

  60. jan sterling Says:

    was hoping to see something on the news about the sale today – unless i missed it on cnn – sure hope the horses got to go to good homes or freedom – bet every one who worked so hard is exhausted but be assured they all did their best

  61. jan sterling Says:

    guess we will get update tomorrow on here as to what happened today

    my one granddaughter is descended from blackfeet thru her grandma – dont have any names – but my daughter always loved horses the way i did and do – i always wanted an arab and many of those little mustangs still have that same spark the arab does – so you would know arabian blood runs thru their veins – and the foals look like arab foals

  62. carol poole Says:

    Anyone out there from Massachusetts going to D.C. tomorrow for Mustangs on the Hill Tuesday morning?

  63. jan sterling Says:

    just hope all who are going tomorrw and tuesday take lots of pictures and video

    • Marilyn Wargo Says:

      Remember to bookmark Nevada Horse Power so you can watch the Arlington meeting broadcast at their website. Please try to make videos and details for us in Washington, of speakers and experiences you have. We have a chance to shut down the roundups before ROAM is passed. That would save lives now. We do not have enough information to find the New Mexico “Jicarilla” roundup. Tomorrow I will call and ask details. But I will also be asking if they intend to stop them all. That is what we need to do, those of us who are staying home; tell BLM to stop the roundups NOW. Mar

      • Morgan Williams Says:


        I hope there will be taped video of the Advistory Board meeting including the public comments. I have book marked the page with the live video feed so maybe I can watch on Wednesday.


    • Morgan Williams Says:


      I do not the ability to take video, but I can take lots of picture.

      I feel kinda like I am in imaginary land today. I am actually going to DC on Monday. Going to meet people from all over the country. See Ginger, Makendra, Carol, Valerie and so many othes. Going to meet with Senator Feingold & his staff to talk about the Mustang & Burros issues. Ginger has agreed to come to the meeting for a few minutes but another board member will be along.


      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Congratulations, MW on making the trip! I have read with dismay your repeated questions and comments about hoping to go and am so glad you are actually getting to go! I think it is great you are taking “gifts” for the Senator! Have a great trip, and same to all who are traveling!

      • Morgan Williams Says:


        This was a hard decision to make when balancing the fact I have been unemployed for so long and there is only so much left in my bank account. I have sold every possession I own of value to keep afloat! I only refuse to sell all my horse equipment, saddles and tack.

        For 5 or 6 days I have been looking for the best airline ticket and place to stay. This morning the price of the ticket was at it’s lowest. The bonus was that the round trip would be non-stop and right into DC. The subway in the terminal will take me practically to the doorstep of the DC Hostel I am staying at. The Capital is only a 20 minute walk.

        One thought really tipped the scales. My very dear Mother died unexpectedly October 6, 2008. I held her hand as she suffered terribly through a sudden illness that she could not survive, though the best doctors, nurses and hospital was taking care of her. The one year anniversay is coming up and I still deal with grief. This trip is being done in remembrance of her. She was the greatest horsewoman I knew. As a very young gal, she set out on her great adventure across the USA. One job along her way was being a wrangler on a dude ranch in Montana. She was this skinny young thing and the cowboys thought they would embrass her and then run her off. Oooooo. Little did they know just who they were dealing with. They ALL ate their hats for doubting my Mum. My Mum even cared for rescued wildlife like mountain lions.

        If my Mum were alive, this (fighting for Mustangs and Burros) would be the proudest work I could have done in her eyes.

        I will be getting pictures and bringing home tons of memories, experience and information.

      • Marilyn Wargo Says:

        Morgan Glad you are going, your Mum would be very proud. i will be thinking about all of you out there talking to senators and people who care.

  64. jan sterling Says:

    i posted about some one got consiquitidor – friend from a shelter asked me if any of the stallions got fixed – she was so concerned for them as she said its real hard on them – i told her i did not know if blm had done that

  65. jan sterling Says:

    since i am in calif and meeting is 3 hrs ahead of me will have to remember to watch – wish cnn or fox news would be there – i have emailed them – maybe someone could get in touch with jaime velez mitchell frm cnn to be there

  66. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Makendra told me that the older stallions were not to be gelded. As for Floyd, did he get to go with Conquistador? If so, he may have been spared, too. I was very worried about that and glad to know they had asked BLM to let them be so their plan could fall into place on adoption day. Mar

  67. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Yes, Floyd got to go with Conquistador. They are so lucky to be out of the pens and able to explore 2000 acres. Mar

  68. jan sterling Says:

    watching the national parks on pbs – boy i wish we had a congress like they had in those days that set aside yosmite and yellowstone as living treasures – we need another john muir to speak today – he felt the parks were the places to preserve our natural heritage and our history including the wild places and the wild life

  69. jan sterling Says:

    did anyone find out about grumpy the mare that ginger mentions in her video – was she adopted too – you know after you watch cloud videos a few times – you few like you personally know all those horses too

  70. carol poole Says:

    A short video of auction of Pryor Mountain horses. http://www.billingsgazette.com/news/local/vmix_39354e76-ab05-11de-aced-001cc4c03286.html

  71. jan sterling Says:

    could not get video to play – maybe its me

    also cannot get the nevada horse power channel to open on my computer – have vista with all kinds of fancy internet connections – just was wishing cnn or someone would carry meeting but guess too much else going on in the world

  72. carol poole Says:

    sorry Jan! I tried it again from the link and mine opened. Try this link and then look on the right hand side of the page where it says recent videos. It is the second one down. Hopefully it’ll work.

    I didn’t get the BLM meeting to open either. I guess there was a problem with it according to TCF message I read earlier on another page.

    I was checking trains and planes to D.C. from Boston…guess i’m not going to the hill tomorrow!! Non stop to D.C. $600+ and train takes 10 hours!!!! Bah humbug!!

  73. jan sterling Says:

    wow it costs so much to fly just from mass to wash – did anyone u talk to on here suggest a ride with them – i sure hope the tv cameras will be there tomorrow – might be on c-span – early of course for calif – i went directly to http://www.nvhorsepower.org website to try and see live feed – still wouldnt work – my windows media player opened but my online connection thru veriizon dsl i guess wont open it – i know some channels for live feed you have to download their software – sure hope some video was taken so the can post to tcf later – so we know who went – and what was said – wonder if that senator from lousiana will be there – they had a demostration today of some 3,000 muslims on the capitol grounds – saying they should be the religion of america

  74. jan sterling Says:

    after watching the new park series on pbs – boy what a difference did one person make – john muir – he wrote and spoke and got the two parks set aside forever – he was adamant that yoisimte and yellowstone never suffer from selfish men to expolit the parks just to make a profit – they had already started in yosimite and he put a stop to it – just by writing to a newspaper and to washginton so one person can make a difference even if the odds seem insurable – think that will be the message that washington will see tomorrow from the horse lovers of america – we all can be a john muir in each our own way and stop the profit margin theblm gets with the wild horses

  75. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    There is a new post up on this blog from TCF mar

  76. jan sterling Says:

    where is new posting could not find it – figure meeting about over in virginia

  77. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Jan go to the top of any page and it will take you there, info on the Rally with pda and SPeakers!!

  78. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Click on CLoud’s face. mar

  79. jan sterling Says:

    hope meeting tomorrow makes it to the news

    if on news i can tape it

  80. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Yes, while they are their they need to be seen and heard. Mar

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