Letter from Ginger Kathrens

Admiral band + judas horse 9-4-09 MSDear Friends;

We have always believed that 20 young Pryor wild horses ages 1-2 could be successfully adopted even during these rough economic times. Now BLM is holding 57 horses and three foals at the Britton Springs Corrals located at the base of the mountain. Most are over 1-2 years of age. We continue to push for BLM to return the oldest back to their home.

I am sad to report that many of Cloud’s progeny have been permanently removed: Rain, Arrow, Image, Ember, Summer and Sage have tags around their necks with numbers. But they will never be numbers to me. They will always be my special children of the wild. Sax (Himalaya), Cloud’s little brother, a buckskin 2 year old, has also been removed from his home. He has always been such a joyous colt, so curious and playful. His fun-loving life has just been shattered and he has no understanding of why this has happened. Neither do I. BLM’s destructive management policies have turned wild horse heaven into hell.

Cloud's mother and Sax, June 2007- photo Living Images by Carol Walker

Cloud's mother and Sax, June 2007- photo Living Images by Carol Walker



No horses have been treated more unjustly than the Custer National Forest horses. All who were rounded up on Commissary Ridge are to be permanently removed. This was to be a selective removal, but at the last moment, BLM revealed their plan to gut this sub-population and its important genetic lines.

We are hopeful that BLM will show some compassion and return the Forest Service band stallions Conquistador (19 years old), Bo (13), Trigger (12), and Shane (10) back to the designated range with their adult mares. If not into their homeland, than the bands need to be in a setting that is wild. It is important to keep these bands in tact as an essential reservoir from which to draw to shore up the genetics which have been lost in this massive removal.





We are praying that Raven’s mare, Grumpy Grulla (21) will be returned to her precious Pryor home. She was one of the first wild horses I ever saw. This strong-willed grulla mare brought many smiles to my face as she regularly disciplined her offspring as well as the other foals in Raven’s band including Cloud—hence her name. It is only fitting that she be allowed to live out the last few years of her life in freedom in her spectacular home.  

Grumpy Grulla

Grumpy Grulla



We fight on for the herd and all wild horses still living free on OUR public lands. Keep your calls and letters and emails coming. The voices of the American and world public will surely be heard in time. Never give up! Bless all of you for outpouring of support for Cloud and his herd and our American mustangs.

Happy Trails,


 (On a very practical note, if you are interested in adopting a Pryor Mustang it is important that you fill out an adoption application which is available on line by going to the BLM Wild Horse and Burro Program. I will be doing so when I return to Colorado. The Pryor adopton is scheduled for Septmber 26th in Lovell, Wyoming.)

Band Stallions Chino and Chance greet one another

Band Stallions Chino and Chance greet one another

NOTE: We have received word that the BLM has received some threatening calls. Please tell anyone you hear speak of such threats to stop– the Cloud Foundation does not condone illegal actions and these only hurt our cause and our work to save these horses and those across the west. Please call your Senators and Congress people, the media and of course, The President with your requests for these older horses to be released and for the mismanagement of our wild horses to be reformed. Thank you.


162 Responses to “Letter from Ginger Kathrens”

  1. Christine Says:

    I’m looking up driving directions right now…hope to be there at least.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if its PETA members making the threats. I’ve heard they can get pretty rabid.

    • jo bunny Says:

      hey, folks! please let’s refrain from accusations. this is just kind of thing we don’t need right now. it could be anyone making those calls. don’t slam peta. they have done a lot of good for animals & have gotten some good press, too. let’s all try to work together on this!

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        absolutely, I agree.

        I guess it takes everyone in the fight.

        some with teeth, some without! ha

      • Christine Says:

        I’m sorry, my cynicism was showing through. 😉

        I have always been of the opinion that any fight needs its berzerkers, but properly applied berzerkers. 😉 Now is not the time, tho.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      I was concerned somebody contacted Greenpeace. Talk about rabid.
      I’m sure BLM has seen it all before, however.

      I hope

    • Morgan Williams Says:


      Are you already living in the Wyoming area? I wonder if you and I might be able to go together. My private email address is:



  2. Christine Says:

    Any word on the lame foal? Was she one of the foals kept back with her mother?

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      did you read about the dun mare who flipped then a foal or something flipped? what about them?

      • Christine Says:

        Just from comments here. I don’t read other wild horse advocate blogs – mainly because I just don’t know of any others, other than Marilyn’s.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      What is Marilyn’s blog. I can’t find it by clicking on her name. . . .

  3. Robert C. Bauer Says:

    I am seriously interested in putting up money for adoption for as many mustangs as possible. The problem exists of land. If someone has the land where the mustangs could live I would be willing to work with that individual for the benefit of those mustangs that the BLM is so determined to keep off of their home range and hold for adoption so at least they will have a place where they are loved. When I went out to the Pryor Mountains, I went not to see the mustangs, but rather to experience them, somehow connect with them , as it has been my endeavor to do with all wildlife. They graciously took me into their families and now they are a part of mine and have found their way deep into my heart. If there is anyone that can help me with information along these lines I would be grateful.

    • Christina R Says:

      Hi Robert,
      Try calling Christine in Ginger’s office, I bet she can help you get the information you need.

    • Christine Says:

      Call the Cloud Foundation in the morning, like Marilyn says lower down here. Its been mentioned that they DO have the land, or access to it, but need help with the adoption/sale funds.

    • Roxy Says:

      Robert, go to PBS Cloud, there have been several blogs there on vaarious blog pages from people with land willing to help – some are fairly old, but may still be willing and able – wish I had a list for you.

      Check them out with Cloud Foundation though – lots of sneeky ones out there that might just be looking for you to pay them to hold them for a year, then collect more money from the slaughter houses.

  4. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Thanks for this message and the pictures. I hope you make headway for the Forest Service Horses. Many want word on the foal who is in the video that was so sore and tired. Mar

    • HeatherinNS Says:

      Marilyn, I think I read on the other blog that the sore foal is being held for a few days…no doubt till Adoption Day!
      Sorry, I’m really feeling cynical. I did read it, somewhere…

  5. Lindsay McDannold Says:


    I still think that we need to organize a protest at the BLM meeting held at the Arlington Hyatt in Arlington VA on the 28th of September. BLM is requesting that anyone wishing to be heard must submit their remarks in writing before they will be allowed to speak. This is a Government entity and we should be allowed to speak freely. It is also very close to Washington DC and if we get the media to stand out there with us, which they will, we can request to be heard and if denied, we will be denied on camera, but will still be able to be heard by the media. I also think, and I am checking on the laws, but I think something else that would really get the public’s, media’s and Congress’ attention is to organize a march from the white house to Capitol Hill, but not just any march, we would all be on horseback. Tell me what you guys think. I recommend we do this march sometime soon before Adoption Day.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      Are permits required? How long are the permits (for a march) good for?

      Maybe a permit needs to be obtained and held until such an event can be organized.

      Begin the process. Does it cost $$. Would people who cannot go be willing to help with $$$ costs?

      • Lindsay McDannold Says:


        I am not sure yet. I still am trying to find out if there is any law against riding horses in city limits in DC. I don’t want anyone to get arrested, although I am not sure what they would do about our horses! LOL! Once I get an answer to this question, I will find out about the permits from there. If money is going to go anywhere, I would like it to go to the Freedom Fund. I will construct a very large banner with people’s names on it who are supporters and we will carry it as we walk down. Maybe if we get $1.00 per signature, we can help Ginger out with the purchase of the horses!

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Where did McCloud ride his horse?

        Maybe we need to go to Times Square lol

        The mounted police ride their horses. They might know where to get a permit. lol

      • theandbetween Says:

        As Janet said, the U.S. Park Police have horse mounted units, but an interesting sidelight is that they are facing cuts due to the recession, according to this article. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8202697.stm

        One of the mounted officers is quoted as saying the horses “have a calming effect on people” and can go places other units cannot. So true.

        Also, there were several mounted units in President Obama’s Inaugural Parade, including the Border Patrol’s Mustang Unit (Spokane Sector). Here is a link http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/archives/2008_news_releases/december_2008/12082008.xml

        Another thing to note is that the involvement of horses in the Inaugural Parade prompted responses from both PETA and the HSUS after a horse that belonged to the Southern Ohio Ladies Aside (a mounted unit) received a minor leg injury after backing into a truck and getting his leg caught. The accident was reportedly resolved quickly and the horse recovered no problem, but both PETA and the HSUS used the episode as an opportunity to issue press releases to say the horse had “severe” or “life-threatening” injuries, and that maybe horses should not be around people or traffic. http://www.squidoo.com/mouse-obama-inauguration-horse

        There are other comments on this blog and the website regarding PETA and the HSUS. I think they are both great at raising awareness for animals, but are both opposed to horses being ridden, so would probably not support a “Ride on the Capitol” or “Ride to the White House.”

        What if people rode in their own home states in some public venue and then put together a montage of some kind? The local press would cover each individual ride and it would show that supporters are all over the country in different settings with different horses/tack, etc.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        theandbetween, that is such interesting information in your post.
        a beautiful old mounted police barn that I visited many years ago, in a great park in our great city i live in , just closed down (I didn’t hear the whole story). When I visited it was being run so fantastic — smelled like fresh hay, sun filtered into high windows of huge facility, quiet, and clean. So sad.

    • Roxy Says:

      This is actually a question about PETA and HSUS not wanting horses to be ridden, comments further down.

      Ever? Under no circumstance? Can’t pull buggies, etc.?

      That is pretty far out there – may as well send every one of them to slaughter based on that! Most domestic horses are kept to serve some purpose, not just stand around eating, eating up money to feed them.

      And I think horses are at least almost as intelligent as dogs, and want a purpose, want to please. What is PETA and HSUS thinking?

      • theandbetween Says:


        I can’t speak for either organization, but I know the HSUS has issued statements opposing horses pulling carriages, horses in rodeos and horses in fox hunts. I believe they are generally opposed to horses being in parades due to concerns about safety–horse and human. PETA I believe is generally opposed to horses (or any animals) being domesticated by humans, but I don’t know if they campaign against riding. They do campaign against horse racing, horse-drawn carriages and rodeos, and have issued statements when horses were injured in parades or on city streets.


  6. Nora Morbeck Says:

    It seems that the meeting on the 28th is a public one held in a private setting. This makes demonstrations a little harder. If you plan to protest, please check on local permits and guidelines, where you’re allowed to stand, etc. If you show up at the Hyatt with banners and begin protesting on private property, without permission, you run the risk of being asked to leave or — worst care — being arrested.

    Also, the format for the meeting is standard. To be taken seriously, it’s best to follow the rules. If you want to speak, submit the paperwork ahead of time, as requested.

    What happens is that the public gets so angry about an issue like this and wants to be heard — which is totally understandable. People in government, though, are really good at painting us as over-emotional loony tunes — so if you decide to speak, please do everything by the book, be prepared, and ask hard questions with the media present. Don’t give them an excuse to dismiss wild horse advocates as just a bunch of horsey loving weirdos.

    The more video cameras the better, if they’re alowed inside. This could be a great YouTube event, even if the press decides not to cover it heavily.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:


      good points!!

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Maybe any letters we write to the BLM for this big meeting, we oughta’ copy in the GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE. I will research & get the address and the name of a real person to send it to. . . . be sure not to show it as a “blind carbon copy, either!!!!

    • Marilyn Phillips Says:

      I agree that we need to follow the rules. I do not think that we need to “protest” or to involve our horses. Just calmly state the facts and propose solutions. I am wondering if we should each speak or let Ginger/The Cloud Foundation speak and we could all show up in large numbers as supporters.
      When I spoke w/ the BLM coordinator for this meeting, she said that they have a large, expandable meeting room and have, in the past, accomodated as many as 100 people at one of these meetings. If more than 100 of us show up that would be interesting … In the event that we plan to attend in significant numbers, we should let the media know ahead of time.
      On the other hand, something else to think about, should we spend the money to travel and attend the meeting or is it better spent as a donation to TCF?

  7. Lindsay McDannold Says:

    I am taking the first steps for this and am faxing the US Capitol Police my request. I am trying to get it for the 23rd of September so we have enough time before adoption day and the BLM Meeting on the 28th. I will keep everyone updated.

  8. jo bunny Says:

    I hope this is helpful information & isn’t something that everyone already knows! Take a look at the American Horse Defense Fund’s website: http://www.adhf.org.
    There is a lot of stuff regarding how to write letters, taking action, etc. The website is a little out of date on some things (W is still listed as president) but it has a lot of useful tools. AND since they are located IN DC, they might be of assistance in telling you how to get permits!
    Also, look at their guide to lobbying. It might be of some assistance: http://www.ahdf.org/Downloads/LobbyGuideforAHDF.pdf
    They also have sister sites http://www.saveourwildhorses.com & http://www.hooflinks.blogspot.com with more information. There was a recent post about organizing trips to DC over the course of the next month.

  9. Janet Ferguson Says:

    Here’s an article from http://www.animallawcoaltion.org website:


    on another topic. does anyone know anything about the American Wild Mustang and Burro Association (Delaware). Are they good guys or bad guys. Their website states that wild horses are not endangered wildlife or indiginous species or something like that. . . .I heard Ginger say the science has recently proved this false. . . .yet the laws still reflect they are domestic animals run amuk or something. . . more info needed!!!!!

    thank you to anyone who knows anything about above group. I am trying to find a group locally who wil emphasize educating the general public and learning about and pushing laws that will help the horses.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      Janet Ferguson Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      September 11, 2009 at 3:07 pm | Reply

      on another topic. does anyone know anything about the American Wild Mustang and Burro Association (Delaware).

      thank you to anyone who knows anything about above group. I am trying to find a group locally who wil emphasize educating the general public and learning about and pushing laws that will help the horses.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        beware the phantom blog moderator bug. . . .it can strike anywhere lol

      • RJ Daum RPLS Says:

        American Wild Mustang and Burro Association (Delaware).

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Rj Daum — That link you posted contains the following wording:
        The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has been charged by Congress with the responsibility of protecting and preserving wild equine. We believe that the “Adopt-a-Horse-or-Burro” program is currently the most effective way of accomplishing this although we may not always agree with every aspect. Our function is to support the Bureau’s program and to assist in whatever way we can. Our goal is to help and not to hinder the process.

      • carol poole Says:

        I became a member of the AWHBA after I adopted my mustang 2 yrs ago. Their newsletter offerred all kinds of help for new owners etc. for sale (books, videos etc) They provided phone #’s of State Co-ordinators who could help new owners. I called mine several times and never once got a reply. There was a fee for membership and also a fee to “register” your mustang.
        From the info in the newsletters it appears to me that they support the “work” of the BLM.
        I did not send my annual “dues” this year therefor I do not receive any newsletters anymore.
        Again, this is just my opinion of them.
        They “promote” owning a mustang and showcase their adaptability in captivity.
        There were never any AWHBA events in my state. (Massachusetts) most are in the Maryland/Delaware area.

  10. Winnie Says:

    I am really concern about the older horses..well actually all of them. I’ve sent in my donation yesterday and will spread the word out this weekend. I am a dreamer and want them to be all released..maybe it will happen.

    Ginger and the team, please take care. We need you.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      My spouse and I are talking about giving. We will send tomorrow’s post! lol

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        We decided to give what we can once every quarter (ex: Jan, April, July, Oct.)

        An anxious to support the Freedom Fund.

        Don’t forget folks the time and good info you are posting on this blog is also of value to the horses, even if not monetary!!!

  11. Nora Morbeck Says:

    My donation is going in today. I can’t afford much, but every little bit helps.

    The wild horse situation hit home a little harder today for me, because a horse in the domestic herd I caretake was sold — unbeknownst to me — and was already loaded up in a trailer when I got to the barn this morning.

    All of the other horses stood around the trailer, “talking” to Star, wondering where she was going. My three horses were noticeably confused, as Star was part of their sub-herd.

    Horses — whether domestic or wild — create strong family bonds. I’ve seen many, many horses come and go over the years, and it always upsets the herd. They don’t understand.

    I can only imagine how devastating it is for these wild horses to lose their sisters and brothers, their elders and their children.

    I can’t be in Arlington physically at the end of the month, but I’ll be there in spirit — praying for all of you and the horses.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      a little now a little later.

      stream of income philosophy, right?

      they need a stream. $5.00/mo. X 12 months = $60.00/year.
      $60.00/year times 100 people = $6,000.00.

      Would that be enough to care for one horse on in a wild setting? (do you need to file the teeth of older horses? do they need hoof care? Hay in winter? Are they then wild? Oh dear)

      Maybe we need to I.D. a monetary goal Per Horse and have a $$ drive to support a specific horse — then each group of donors would have their own “adopted Mustang.” The fund would have sort of an ongoing blog to see which horse needs help with their sustaining fund (like if they needed 2 more people to give $5.00 a month or something).

      The BLM has a program like that already where you can help with $$ to pay for their horses in captivity.
      Of course we are all paying for that already.

      My concern is immediate need to get older horses out of those pens and back onto A range or new home ASAP **** *****

      • Morgan Williams Says:


        Care such as teeth floating & hoof trimming is not done on wild horses or burros by human intervention. Think of the sedation it would take! God did design nature to give wild animals all the care they need. As we saw in 1 of the installments of Nature’s Cloud series, nature takes it’s course or the herd will. A foal was born unable to walk. I believe it was Raven that killed the foal, lest it slowly starve to death.

        The BLM’s funds for wild horse & burro care are gobbled up by private land owners who are paid to ‘graze’ (Don’t know if that is a honest to goodness program with Dave Coittour’s history coming to light) and then money spent to feed the mustangs and burros in holding pens. I wouldn’t give BLM one % of a penny in a donation.

        Donations are needed for rescue organizations and sanctury efforts to adopt the mustangs & burros OR buy them back from slaughter houses.

        Donations right now to The Cloud Foundation’s Freedom Fund are going to help the work of adopting (or buying back) the Pryor Mt range mustangs on Sept 26th. Ginger, the Front Range Equine Rescue (and all others physcially involved these last 2 weeks) already have the land & other requirements the BLM enforces for potential adoptees. Also, it looks like the plan is too keep the older mustangs (10 to 20+ years old) together on private land until their release back to the Pryor’s is won in court. It’s hard to battle against the current mining corporation being backed by deep United Arab Emareite pockets.

        Of course, it doesn’t stop anyone one of us from getting the proper documents into the BLM quickly to be considered for adopting a Mustang on Sept. 26. Read the BLM adoption requirements. It has been my dream since childhood to adopt a mustang.

      • Lindsay McDannold Says:


        It was Looking Glass that killed the foal, not Raven. 🙂

      • Pat Hite Says:

        I had the same thought. If you can sponsor roads, children overseas, animals in the zoo, etc., etc., it seems this could work.

        So they have the Elk Refuge at Jackson Hole, where they feed elk during the winter. If the BLM’s argument is that sure, there’s grass in summer but thorses starve in the winter——–a solution could be arranged.

      • Christine Says:

        Actually, Morgan, hoof trimming is done on each horse before an adoption event. They’re put in a squeeze chute and turned on their side, then their hooves are nipped. At least that’s what I was told when I asked how they could trim them when the horses were still wild.

        Yeah, not a pleasant image.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        this sounds dumb but I thinkMorgan was talking about horses to be returned to a wild range environment

      • Roxy Says:

        About feeding wild horses. One of the rescues, can’t remember which one, does that because the land cannot support the horses. But the horses then only hand around the feeding area, don’t really roam around that much anymore.

        It would seem one would need a plane or helicopter to spread the feed around the range – I see that as viable.

        Its like thepelican story, when the plicans were feed at the dump sites, they forgot how to fish on their own, and started to starve when the dump sites were covered up thus the old saying, hope I get it right

        “You cn feed a pelican for a day, or teach a pelican for a day how to fish for a lifetime”, something like that.

        Yes, I think a feeding Foundation, or an offshoot of an exisitn Foundation, could be done. Would BLM allow this though? Why not pay those helicopter people do to someting besides just roundups? If public donations were regular? Or a few pennies a year in higher taxes for this purpose?

      • Roxy Says:

        Ok, why can’t I see these replies that I am writing? Need a magnifying glass I guess – anyway sorry, AGAIN, for typos.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      My prayers and with you.

      Thanks for sharing your plight, and please explain more of the details about how you are involved, where your horses fit in with this scene and everything.

      I would like to know more about your situation — what domestic herd was rounded up? Can they do that? Please explain.

      • Nora Morbeck Says:

        No plight or domestic horse round up. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

        My comments were just observations about horse behavior in general — from personal experience with a small herd at a barn/pasture in Georgia. I keep my horses there and care for them, along with the property owner’s other 15 or so horses.

        I guess the situation of one of this barn’s horses being sold just brought to the forefront for me how bonded horses get in a herd. It doesn’t matter whether they’re domestic or wild, horses react strongly when one of their own is taken away. I’ve been thinking about how these wild horses must feel when they’re separated from each other.

        As demonstrated by Cloud’s herd when it was released, horses are reluctant to leave their families behind. They scream, try to recover their lost ones. It’s heart-wrenching.

        I’m glad there’s attention being paid by Ginger and others to keeping wild bands as intact as possible. This is vital to the health and well-being of these wild horses. I hope my donation helps to keep these families together.

  12. Karen L. Says:

    Thank you for the continuing updates and your strong advocacy, Ginger! Everyone give to the Freedom Fund!

  13. Lindsay McDannold Says:


    I am making progress! I haven’t received the permit for the march yet, but I have contacted Kevin Costner and Viggo Mortensen’s agents to see if they would be willing to join us. I also contacted the AAHS to see if they would like to join as well. If this gets approved this would be great!

    • Morgan Williams Says:


      Well aren’t you smart. I completely forgot about Kevin Costner and his Modern West band.

      • Laura Evans Says:

        ooh, Viggo Mortensen was a good idea. I had thougtht of Hidalgo and also Spirit. but I didn’t even think of Viggo Mortensen.

      • jo bunny Says:

        this might be redundant or a long shot, but how about contacting the brigitte bardot foundation (get some back up from people across the pond who want to help stop slaughter in the usa) & the doris day animal league, both of which are tring to end horse slaughter & who are campaigning for more horse protection rites??

    • Roxy Says:


      How do you get to their agents? Please advise. Do you have to join a fan club?

      I’d try every recording artist who ever put “Wild Horses” on an album, even Rolling Stones – why not?

      U2 and Bono have a wild horse song, lots of others.

      Paul Scorvino is already an anti slaughter campaigner and has rescued lots of race horses – he may not be aware of the wild horse situation.

      Lets get “Wild Horse Aide” going – contact Willie Nelson, he already has spoken for wild horses.

  14. Morgan Williams Says:

    I understand Ginger’s heart sickness over Sax’s capture. We have to keep hoping that every single one of these Mustangs will go into the perfect & knowledgeable hands of those who fully understand the Mustang’s nature and purpose here on earth. I know some folks in my state who have adopted Mustangs & have done right by these incrediable equines.

  15. Lindsay McDannold Says:

    Okay, so I have good news and bad news. I have definately booked the West Front lawn on Capitol Hill for our march for the ROAM Bill!!!!! The bad news is that we cannot do it on horseback because we can only use city streets and they will not block them off. It would be too dangerous to our horses, so there will be no horses there. I still think it is important to be heard and speak out. This is a wonderful opportunity for us to be heard. I will still have a banner. If you would like your name on the banner as a supporter, please donate $1.00 or more to the Cloud Foundation and your name will be added and the banner will be given to Congress. I anticipate a lot of Media to be there and give us a push in that arena for the protest on the 28th at the BLM meeting.

    • Lindsay McDannold Says:

      If we get 10,000 signatures that is at least 10,000 dollars that will go directly to the adoption funds.

    • Karen L. Says:

      Lindsay, Great work!! I live at least 1500 miles from DC and am not able to attend the march, but have already donated to the Fund this week. I definitely want to have my name on the banner–could we FAX you a receipt or something? Also, what about Robert Redford as a supporter? He’s an environmentalist–not sure about his stance on mustang issues.

      • Lindsay McDannold Says:


        I will be talking to Christine with the Cloud Foundation to get a list of everyone who has donated to the Freedom Fund already and their names will be added. Everyone, please urge family members and friends to donate as well. Every little bit helps! Like I said 10,000 donations at $1 would be $10,000!!!! Keep calling and working on your Congressmen and Senators for support as well!!!

    • Lucinda Suttle Says:

      What time and date were you able to book?

    • Lucinda Suttle Says:

      Could the march also include support for the Prevention of Equine Cruelty Act (S.727) to prohibit the transport, export, or sale of any horse to be slaughtered for human consumption?

      Is there a fee for using the West Front Lawn?

      By the way, Lindsay, YOU ROCK! GREAT JOB!

      • Lindsay McDannold Says:


        Yes! We will be gathering to not only support the ROAM act (but that is our main agenda) but also the Equine Cruelty Act which at this point go hand and hand. There is no fee to use the West Front Lawn, and we will also be able to hand out literature to the public regarding both bills. People are encouraged to make and bring their own signs and we will have the banner with everyone’s names on it. We will also be contacting all of the local news crews in DC and Nationwide outlets to cover this event and hopefully they will follow us to Arlington on the 28th where we will go and speak against the BLM! We are on our way guys!!!

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Very true! She is definitely making tracks!!!!!!

    • Lucinda Suttle Says:

      Ok, lots of points, so please bare with me…

      1. We’re attempting a peaceful demonstration, yes? I’m contemplating bringing my 9 year old daughter. I understand there are no promises here.

      2. I talked to my husband about making a donation to The Cloud Foundation. He pointed out that his company will match whatever donation we make as long as The Cloud Foundation is a non-profit (I just looked and it is a non-profit). There must be other’s companies that do this too. We should point this out to the others – I didn’t think about it until he mentioned it. Sometimes we all need a little reminder. ; )

      3. We were also brainstorming ideas about how to bring awareness of the demonstration to others. Because September 24th is just around the corner, time is of the essence and we need to be proactive. Lindsay, could you talk to Christine about emailing the details to the demonstration, the banner idea and how The Cloud Foundation plans to use the donated funds to their subscribers? Perhaps Carol Walker could do the same. Carol emailed my husband about the Pryor horses last week and that’s how I became involved.

      4. I plan on e-mailing Barbara Boxer (co-sponsor of S.727) to let her know we support her bill and that we are planning to demonstrate in its favor. I see that there are 22 co-sponsors of this bill. I think I’ll email them too. We should do the same for the ROAM act. Who knows, maybe a senator or two may join us. Any devil’s advocates out there for this?

      5. Would it be possible for someone to keep track of who is planning on attending the demonstration? I think it would be useful to see how many people can show up in person.

      6. Looking at Amazon.com today, I saw that there are a number of mustang book writers. We could contact them and I also thought we could contact Monty Roberts. Can anyone think of any reason why I shouldn’t?

      • Karen L. Says:

        Lucinda, I wondered about Monty Roberts as well. I don’t understand why he hasn’t been more visible from the beginning. However, I do know that his first beloved horse went to slaughter (without his knowledge), and that the horse’s name was (really ironic) “Ginger”. I would think it would be okay to contact him.

      • jo bunny Says:

        Lucinda, I’ve already tried sending something to Monty & to a few other Horse Whisperer/Listener types. No response yet. Perhaps if there were more requests? or if there were requests coming from someone with more clout behind them?? dunno. I would like to hope that people like the Monty Roberts, Chris Irwins, & Mark Rashids of the world could at least be helpful in creating some positive reform in the BLM’s wild horse handling processes. I had the thought that it would be great if folks like that were brought in to set up training programs set up for the people currrently involved in dealing with the wild horses who don’t seem to know JACK about dealing with horses! ahhh. dreaming…….

      • Lindsay McDannold Says:


        I plan on it being peaceful. I am bringing my 11 year old daughter as well. I am speaking with Christine at the Cloud Foundation and should hear back from her now that I have given her specific dates and I am sure they will post the info on this. I have also posted it on a horse site that reaches all of VA, MD and the Washington area so there is another outlet. I will be contacting the news station in DC as well as soon as I nail down the particulars. I also contacted Congressman Grijalva’s office to let them know we were planning this in case he wanted to take part in this.I have also contacted some other horse advocate groups to see if they would be interested in joining us and posting the information on the demonstration and the banner on their websites as well. Keep coming up with great ideas!

      • Christine Says:

        JoBunny, there already is one, in place for several years. The BLM usually has demonstrations of it or similar approaches at the adoptions, unless they’ve stopped that in the last few years. Its called Least Resistance Training Concepts – http://www.whmentors.org/index.html

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Go for it. One of those writers is on the Board of Directors of the Cloud Foundation and her book sounds fantastic.

        You can purchase it at the equine group’s website on the Cloud Home Page, I noticed.

        Also don’t forget to support your local library.
        They are disappearing as fast as our wild horses

    • Holly Says:

      I would like to be listed as a supporter, where do I send my 1.00!!

  16. RJ Daum RPLS Says:

    Great link to Senators for S1579 and S727

    Keep posting on Washington D.C. , be very careful as my experienced friends have told this is extremely dangerous to control in modern times.I trust them for they have done this all over. Absolutely most have pre staging and screening area. One unknown can get media attention and do lots of damage.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      can you be more specific

      • RJ Daum RPLS Says:

        Best illustration is a Judas horse. We are led into a gather by one trained horse. My friends who have protested for years have legal counsel, media counsel, specific screening of message and the messenger. One friend showed me how at meeting before demonstration they had role playing and attempts to make him angry and off message. Just this morning another couple I know who have been active for over 40 years agreed that the mental health of those at the demonstrations go out of control to quickly now. They explained why and not easy to resolve.
        Example are the current health reform demonstrations.
        The key is small well planned with selected image captured in media. The majority of people will only hear $64 million in the new federal budget for wild horses. An image of at risk young people, wounded vets , domestic violence victims and offenders getting mustang healing and work will carry the demonstration.

  17. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    I am playing the devil’s advocate here…. You seem to be going for a one day ‘sort of’ protest on a Thursday in Washington. Why are you doing it so soon and not when more people would be able to be involved? Is this because you could not find out how to go to the National Mall where all can come and participate? Why does a banner with donators names take president over a banner with the names of the horses on it? I hope you are not setting yourselves up to be too small for a really big issue that warrants a longer stay beginning with a Friday to as long as people are coming. There are all these people out there who would come if you did this where you have visibility. Good luck, but one little sally into Washington may ruin your chances for a national platform people will hear. This is too soon. Even the October I mentioned may be too soon. I would talk to Ginger and Makendra first. We may have to wait until spring for a big march on Washington. Do not sell yourselves short. Ginger may be busy up until, and after, the adoption day. This seems small and too quick. Planning may be everything. You could concentrate on BLM meeting and then the next roundup… Mar

    • Lindsay McDannold Says:


      The reason for doing this so soon is to A. get as many donations as possible for Ginger to but as many Pryor horses as possible. B. We need to strike while the iron is hot and not have these random bursts, C. It will get a lot of attention and anyone and everyone from everywhere can join us on Capitol Hill. My main goal is to get media attention on this prior to the BLM meeting and also to show Congress in their own front yard that the pressure is on now. I am definately not thinking small and I think it is more important to hit Capitol Hill than the National Mall. The banner will be names that are in support of the bills and will urge people to donate. Everyone who donates even $1.00 gets their name on this banner. Afterwards, the banner will be given to Congress. I have been speaking with Christine on this and we are working together as much as possible. This si not going to be the only demonstration I can guarantee that, but it will be the first of many to come. It could not hurt to get as much press on this as possible and if we wait till March, that will defeat the purpose of this demonstration, money for adoption, media coverage now and at the BLM Meeting on the 28th.

    • jo bunny Says:

      I like the idea of a banner with all of the HORSES’ names—maybe even photos????–on them rather than a banner with all of our names. I think petitions, letters, whatever with our names would be good to bring along, but a banner with the horses’ names & photos would make a more striking image for onlookers (& media)! Perhaps there would even be enough people so that each person could carry a large photo of one of the Pryor Mountain horses affected by this latest turn of events!

      • Lindsay McDannold Says:


        In addition to the banner, there will also be signs made of the horses and the roundup that will be carried.

  18. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Maybe the National Mall is part of the District of Columbia, and is available.

    • jo bunny Says:

      mar, it might be a good idea to look into hitthing the mall with signs & petitions after the capitol hill piece. there are oodles & oodles of people that hang out on the mall. it might get some more notice for the cause! think of all the tourists, dc employees who hang out on the mall who may not know about tcf & roam & peca!

      oh. & monty’s website says that he is in europe for the fall.

    • Lindsay McDannold Says:


      I will look into this, but the National Mall is a different permit and a different district and will have to be coordinated with that district entity. We are only permitted to demonstrate in the Capitol Hill district for now, but I will call and see what I can do.

  19. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Good luck, if it is ‘a beginning’ then I hope you get attention to the issues and raise money for the older horses. I will give for that, but I would rather have Grumpy Grulla’s name on the banner than mine. Mar

    • Lindsay McDannold Says:


      Grump Grulla doesn’t vote Congressmen and Senators into office. Be rest assured that ALL of the horses will be represented and we will do our best to speak and be advocates for ALL wild mustangs nationwide.

  20. Deb Bennett Says:

    You all might try getting Sheryl Crow too. She is a big supporter of wild horses. I’m sure there are others out there too. I can’t go, but I will be drafting a letter to send to the BLM before the meeting. They need to be reminded that the wild horses they are supposed to be protecting are the very reason the BLM was formed.

  21. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Lindsey, I will not assume to be a part of this, I do assume you want me gone. I am not sure why you tell me what I have already said or give reasons I have stated myself. I will keep doing what I can and stay in touch with TCF. Good luck. Mar

    • Lindsay McDannold Says:


      I didn’t say I wanted you gone, but I am puzzled as to why you would criticize anyone’s efforts to help these horses and bring it to the public eye. My philosophy is the more the merrier, but I will continue to do my best and make every effort to help these horses as I am sure you will. Maybe you and I will go about it in different ways, but that doesn’t make either of us right or wrong. The Congress does not care about names of horses, they care about votes and the names of people supporting this bill will be on the banner to show them that there a thousands of us. Any further suggestions you may have, i would be happy to hear as always.

      • Suzanne Moore Says:

        Lindsay ~ Only one suggestion. Agree that Congress does not care about the names of horses, but PEOPLE do. Not sure which is the best way to go, but the public would definitely be attracted to the names of the horses and their stories.

        Could you do both somehow?

      • Lindsay McDannold Says:


        I am planning on doing big poster signs of the horses that will be free standing and I am making signs and the people are more than welcome to make signs. My point being that the banner will not only help with donations, but we can give it to Congress as this is what they care about in terms of getting our point across and something done. The horses are obviously the reason behind all of this, and we will make sure that we have pictures and names to personalize the signs, but the banner is basically a Petition signed by Supporters. The people who cannot be there physically can still help and be involved byu signing the banner.

      • Karen L. Says:

        Lindsay, Your concept seems very sound to me. The solution and answers to the mustangs’ plight and the BLM’s inadequacies can only be achieved through political/legislative means. We, the voters, have to send a very clear, strong message. The emotional message of the reality of the horses’ lives can be illustrated nicely by the posters with pictures, I would think. I’m only sorry that I can’t be present for this particular march.

  22. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    I said I was playing devil’s advocate. I have not been critical in a negative way. Shame on you for saying so. This is a fight I am very committed to and have been since the whole thing hit the fan when I was a kid. I said it before and I say it now, good luck. Mar

  23. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    You will be glad to hear my suggestions??? Wow. You go girl.

  24. Lindsay McDannold Says:

    I am playing the devil’s advocate here…. You seem to be going for a one day ’sort of’ protest on a Thursday in Washington. Why are you doing it so soon and not when more people would be able to be involved? Is this because you could not find out how to go to the National Mall where all can come and participate? Why does a banner with donators names take president over a banner with the names of the horses on it? I hope you are not setting yourselves up to be too small for a really big issue that warrants a longer stay beginning with a Friday to as long as people are coming. There are all these people out there who would come if you did this where you have visibility. Good luck, but one little sally into Washington may ruin your chances for a national platform people will hear. This is too soon. Even the October I mentioned may be too soon. I would talk to Ginger and Makendra first. We may have to wait until spring for a big march on Washington. Do not sell yourselves short. Ginger may be busy up until, and after, the adoption day. This seems small and too quick. Planning may be everything. You could concentrate on BLM meeting and then the next roundup… Mar

    Mar, I do take some offense to some of these comments you made, however, I am trying to work with everyone in a combined effort to do what I can as we all are. This is not a personal issue, this is an issue about horses that we all care about and want to do our very best for, so let’s try to work together.

  25. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    You take offense? I am gone, Lindsey you have the whole shebang. I was testing the waters and said so up front. You take the cake. You have hurt and offended me but then, I gall to challenge you. All your blogs show you are making decisions. I am sorry you are still picking me apart. it must make you feel good. I ask you to leave me out of your responses because you are harming my reputation. I hope that Christine will remove todays replies from me and lindsey so as not to interfere with her campaign. Seriously. I am gone. Take it.

  26. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    You took it personally not me, Lindsey. That is why I will not follow you. I do not begrudge you anything. You are on top and being decisive. Go for it. mar

  27. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    I did say to talk to Ginger and Makendra first. It is not your place to take offense at something not written to you personally. Mar

  28. Morgan Williams Says:

    Okay, I am having a hard time following the discussion threads.

    It looks Lindsay is planning a peaceful protest on Capital Hill 3 days before roundup?

    What about the person who was going to attend the next BLM meeting in Arlington?

    If you go Thecloudfoundation.org, you might still be able to view the video feed from the BLM Advisory Board meeting in June. Ginger along with many advocates (young and old) attended on behalf of the remaining free roaming American Mustangs and Burros. I learned a lot from watching Ginger conduct herself that day in front of the board.

    My location is not close to anything, but, I am hoping to attend adoption day in Wyoming. Otherwise, personally, I will continue contacting my state reps, senators, congressmen to ask for action on the ROAM Act (as introduced) and the prevention of cruelty bills . Also, continue supporting The Cloud Foundation’s fund.

    There have been so many commendable ideas & brilliant directions posted here the last 7 days. Wow!. There have been so many willing people pouring out their hearts on behalf of our American Mustangs.

    To our Heavenly Great Father, my gratitude I give to you tonight as always. Please continue to be the powerful mediator on behalf of Your beloved creatures.

    • Morgan Williams Says:

      Oops. Major typo. It looks like Lindsay is trying to plan a peaceful protest 3 days before adoption day in Lovell. NOT round up day. So sorry for the confusion!!!!!

  29. Laura Says:

    I just wanted to say to all the people who are taking the time to write passionate blogs on here, don’t forget that the way to stop this horrible treatment of the mustangs is by calling and writing your senators and the President and the media. None of these people are reading these blogs, so if you are going to pour out your passion do it to their ears, as they are the people who need to hear it and they can stop the mustang roundups!

  30. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Ladies, i apologize for upsetting Lindsay and vice versa, you have work to do and so do I. Good luck, I believe in you and TCF, Mar

  31. Janet Ferguson Says:

    I a shlepping my way thru the book by Ms. Stillmann, Mustang, which describes the meetings and legislative debacle that occurred right before Thanksgiving recess when the bill that contained the Burns “gutting” amendment was hurriedly passed by congress, to the surprise and dismay of all concerned except of course Mr. Burns and his cronies and followers. The book describes the speed at which these roundups then increased into the Geo W. Bush years and the rapid removal that is continuing. Be sure this doesn’t happen again. . .here goes Congress into the fall session. The bill is still in committee. Will it get out of committee onto the Senate Floor only to be passed with secret amendments that turn it into another armageddon for the horses???

    Keep a close eye on what’s going on and we need some kind of vigilence that will go beyond the first demonstrations right down to the wire so we can call “foul” if and when they try to sabotage the bill, and they will, trust me.

    Ginger was there in Nevada according to this book by Ms. Stillmann and saw the entire thing unfold later in Congress.It seems that The Cloud Foundation and others have seen it all unfold, this nightmare! So perhaps a game plan to follow wouldn’t be a bad idea. Keep eyes on the law blogs, too and websites that cover changes in and new laws affecting animals nationwide!!!! There are websites on Cloud’s home page with links. Many states have already gone on record in Washington as being poised to vote in favor of allowing horse slaughter inside their borders. My state overwhelmingly passed such a resolution already. Your’s may also have. As long as the climate stays strong for European market in horsemeat consumption, look out. It will start all over again. Who will work at the slaughter operations? Somebody really really rich should offer anybody working in the slaughter industry $2.00 more per hour and health benefits to work for wild horse advocacy instead!!

    People really do see “excess horses”, gov’t expense at keeping, and to many many many people this = slaughter. Whoever is against slaughter needs to identify and work on real solutions to care for these “excess” animals. Of course, they are “excess” because the old boys made them look excess by the c*&p roundup mentality.

    by the way I do not really believe the horses should be managed by the BLM. The BLM should’nt be having to balance wild horses with other public interests on the same land. The horses should have better.. Read up on the past carnage of these animals in places like nevada were anyone can go out into the wild areas where these horses are and interface withthem. also see the suburban sprawl, bringing the horses to their doorstep to have their babies in the middle of the polemonium.

    Nevada has something like 98 mustang areas. Maybe Nevada doesn’t deserve them.

    If you take the mustangs from the state, the state should “pay” by having it’s public lands reduced accordingly. Give the range back to the private sector. Make them pay market value. Then the grazing entities will have to pay more for the range they use at public expense.

    How about THAT?????!!!!!

    • Karen L. Says:

      Yeah, Janet, I’ve been following these issues for several years and it is sort of ironic that the problem with the BLM originates in its name. The Bureau of Land Management– even if they were doing a good job of managing “land”, they may not be able to manage resources. The “resources” are so varied that difficulties arise just with comprehending what may be required. That the BLM has not been adequately “managing” LIVING resources such as horses and burros is patently obvious with only a little bit of investigation. Ginger has stated for years that the BLM should never have been given oversight for the animals!

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Do you know how S.B. 1579 responds to this?


        There’s also a happy bill or something out there to give families $3500 tax credit for care for their pets. Of course, many people don’t make enough to $ to benefit from a tax credit, and I don’t know if it applies to pet horses or not.

      • Karen L. Says:

        Janet, Are you asking rhetorically or actually? I can try to summarize what I have been reading about the bill’s provisions. First, the Burns stealth rider will be essentially nullified. Then, there are ~12 areas that address range issues and actual handling of the animals.
        1–there will be a more concise definition of “thriving ecological balance”
        2–change the wording of some “authorized activities” into “required” such as taking inventory and consistent evaluation of management practices
        3–permit the BLM to establish sanctuaries
        4–authorize the BLM to identify and appropriate ADDITIONAL RANGELAND for horses and burros
        5–require the BLM to develop and implement better fertility control
        6–makes the BLM responsible for practical options for maintaining a thriving ecological balance on the range
        7–PROHIBITS the BLM from maintaining horses in prohibitively expensive contract corrals for longer than 6 months. They must be moved to cost-effective facilities or rangelands
        8–BLM must improve its marketing strategies and give specific examples
        9–stipulates that the BLM has authority to remove animals as set forth in the original Act
        10–requires the BLM to provide additional data on management activities and the data must be more tranparent and available to the public
        11–gives the BLM ability to enter into cooperative agreements to address program deficiencies
        12–outlines specific program REPORTING REQUIREMENTS so that Congress and the public can be informed

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Karen, thank you for the summary.

        Does the bill have any “teeth” in it. Or “sticks” or “carrots” that would make it more likely that the BLM would follow its new directives.

        As seems to have been shown during this roundup, it is not currently following written directives it ALREADY has in its published directives!!

        What will make the difference “this time.” It’s still the BLM.
        If they can ignore the procedures at will now, how will giving them these new criteria make any difference?

        Is this just another handout to the BLM and their contractors?

        I am playing the devil’s advocate, but would really like to know how this will work better, since who’s watching the BLM. IS IT JUST MORE RED TAPE

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Can BLM oversight be undone?

      • Karen L. Says:

        Janet, As an adult you probably know that we will have to see how this plays out. I do know that much of the problem originated in the secrecy and lack of oversight afforded this agency. What is different is that there are numerous attempts to alter the opportunity for clandestine activities by simple changes in language such as “authorized” being changed to “required”, etc. This holds them more legally accountable. They will be REQUIRED to provide data to the public and to be more transparent in all dealings. God, just the requirement that they must develop marketing strategies and report what these actually are, is a giant step forward! The horror that greeted the American public last year was that there WERE NO STRATEGIES in place for managing these herds except “adoption” or warehousing! They just announced that they would start killing the horses because, golly gee, not enough people were adopting them! How could that have ever been adequate?? My first reaction was that “sponsorships” should/could have been available all along. This bill, as it came from the House, will make a difference. It needs to be kept intact. My Congressman, Dr. Michael Burgess, thinks so; Ginger Kathrens thinks so; Rep. Grijalva and Rahall think so; Sen. Robert Byrd thinks so; many American Indian tribes think so; I think so and on and on. The public is aware of the past nonsense and is trying to take a stand. If you look at EA DOI-BLM-MT-C010-2009-35 (available on TCF site) you will see that the BLM knows its days of business as usual are numbered; pp. 28-30 of their own report says that the public interest and new laws or amendments are going to force change.

        In addition to my above remark, you might be interested in reading Rep. Grijalva and Rahall’s letter to the BLM last summer, also available on the TCF site. The GAO report from last year should also be there. People are demanding a change, and adequate federal legislation is the only way to alter the activities of a federal agency. I can’t say for sure what will happen, but I do know that this is as comprehensive an attempt at real progress as has been made since the original Act in 1971.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        #7, above, in your welcome summary of the SB 1579 seems to correspond with the amount of time this new EU quarantine is required to be.

        Would that provide an “opening” for these horses to be quarantined out staight to the slaughter houses after 6 months?

        Thank you.

      • Karen L. Says:

        Janet, I don’t think so–the bill was drafted a while back by the House Environmental Committee. Grijalva and Rahall et al are probably the strongest supporters of our horses. It is my understanding that the Senate version is virtually identical at this time, which is a good thing. This EU stuff is a new bit of irritation….And, I think the 6 month wording is a time limit so that they can’t “warehouse” these mustangs indefinitely and forever as they are now. Besides, if you look at the other provisions, you can see a relationship. The BLM will be asked to expand rangelands and establish sanctuaries and address program deficiencies, none of which is being done now. The main thing is that the Burns rider will be repealed by this act! That helps enormously with the slaughter issues for mustangs. I think the 6 month time frame is a coincidence only.

      • Karen L. Says:

        Janet, I reviewed the Burns rider from 2004. Much of the point of the new ROAM Act involves the repeal of Burns. That would stop the sale of mustangs over the age of 10 years “without restriction” and return all age groups of mustangs to restricted sale or adoption, meaning no sales to kill buyers. It is so very important that the ROAM bill stay intact as it comes from the committee to the Senate floor! Okay, I’m too tired to read and interpret any more law tonight! Thanks.

  32. Janet Ferguson Says:

    Watch these mineral developers and the like get tax credits and all sorts of deals.

  33. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    JF, We only have so many horses in the wild and in holding. The number of horses sent to slaughter has been about 100,000 per year. It doesn’t make sense if they have caught them all or nearly. Montana has that law.. put up yesterday on the blog. Why do people want to get into the horsemeat business if there are only domestic horses to kill? Or is that the point? MW

    • Susan NY Says:

      EU Cracking Down on Drugs in US Horse Meat

      Good points, thank you.

      The roundups and the horse slaughter controversy seem to be closesly related. Some of this doesn’t add up, like using contraceptive drugs to prevent pregnancy, if they want to have enough to slaughter in the hypothetical slaughterhouses the Montana legislature just authorized.

      But we shouldn’t rule it out with the BLM’s master plan. The wild buffalo were sold for meat, and the powers that be didn’t care that they zeroed out. Please see my post below for an update on the EU’s crackdown on drugs – this may affect the story of the wild mustangs.

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      AQHA (not to mention any names in particular, but as an example) benefits monetarily from every quarter horse that is registered with them. (this means they want as many quarter horses born as possible). They and many many other very large long-time big names in the horse industry are pro-slaughter. One of these organizations, based in Kentucky actually did a many paged study (pdf provided on their website) “proving,” THEY concluded, that “only the people who are not horse owners and the rescue groups” are anti-horse slaughter.

      I think the reason the roundups and slaughter issues are so closely related is that it states that certain horses not adopted are left vulnerable to killer buyers from slaughter houses — sort of a result of the policies & rules of 3 strikes rather than intention of the BLM to “send the horses to slaughter.” The slaughter issue is sort of the “rest of the story” for those previous BLM-managed horses. Perhaps the law of “unintended consequences” applies here.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Here are excerpt from the hearings on the Conyers Burton Anti Slaughter bill from last 2007-2008 session, as provided on the website of Animal Law Coalition(I post them because I have gotten used to using them as a reference)


      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        This is copied from the article on the Animal Law Coalition website Article 972:

        Property rights

        Charlie W. Stenholm, former Congressman from the 17th District in Texas, testified against the bill. He made the point horses are property that owners cna do with what they like. Dr. Boyd was quick to respond that it was not so long ago that African Americans were considered to be property.

        Dr. Boyd said, “I’ve heard more times than I can count the argument that by banning horse slaughter Congress will be infringing upon the property rights of American citizens, and that the government has no place in telling people what they can and cannot do with their horses. If I may be so bold, this is the very same argument that was used more than one hundred years ago to perpetuate slavery. It seems that the property rights argument is raised when it is economically advantageous to ignore the plight and suffering of living beings. …The fact is that the government already restricts what Americans can and cannot do to their animals.”

        As Michael Vick learned the hard way.


      • Morgan Williams Says:


        Wow. Lots of great information you posted today.

        Hmmmm. Kentucky did a study on horse slaughter and developed that theory on who exactly is anti-equine slaughter? Kentucky said only non horse owners are against slaughter? The horse capital of the USA? With a billion dollar industry owned mostly by Arab nations? Hmmm. I was at the Kentucky Horse Park 2 years ago for certification in large animal rescue and transport. Across the park is one of Kentucky’s largest equine vet clinic and hospital. It is a multi millor dollar facility that caters to the horse racing industry. Thousands upon thousands are spent by the people to breed, care for and save horses deemed racing quality. In my class group, I met many people from Kentucky doing rescue work for thoroughbreds that are cast offs and considered sub standard quality.

        I sure like that Dr. Boyd. Kinda like the Congressmen who screamed out “You lie!” the other night when President Obama was addressing both sides of Congress on live TV.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Morgan. Here is the KY connection:

        The Unwanted Horse Coalition (Washington, D.C., http://www.unwantedhorsecoalition.org) did the actual study based (in their words) on an initiative from the AAEP (Lexington, KY, http://www.aaep.org/index.php) also sponsored by American Horse Council. The pdf of the study, “2009 Unwanted Horses Survey” is at http://www.unwantedhorsecoalition.org/resources/UHC_Survey_07Jul09b.pdf
        Here is page 31 (I think) of the study: and I quote:

        “Horse Owners and Stakeholders are proponents of reopening U.S. horse processing
        plants. Rescue/Adoption/Retraining Facilities and Non-Horse Owners are not.
        While the study demonstrated a marked disparity in opinions about whether or not the processing
        plants should be reopened, the industry is united in addressing and resolving the unwanted horse
        problem. For example, the views of Stakeholders and Rescue/Adoption/Retraining Facilities differ
        on the issue of processing plants, and yet they share a strong agreement on the need to increase
        options and resources to humanely euthanize unwanted horses. In fact, the need to increase options
        for humane euthanasia is indicated as a priority by all respondent groups. More options and resources
        would likely require funding programs, as well as equine veterinarians with specialized skills.
        Many support the reopening of processing plants, however, this is a matter for federal and state
        officials. The issue, and pros and cons of federal or state legislation, is beyond the scope of this study,
        which is focused on documenting the magnitude of the problem of unwanted horses. Regardless of
        what happens at the legislative level, the horse industry still faces the problem of unwanted horses,
        and the UHC will continue to pursue its mission of educating the horse industry and general public
        about responsible horse ownership.
        The study demonstrated a marked disparity in opinions about processing
        plants, however, the industry is united in addressing and resolving the
        unwanted horses problem. ”

        It is the Unwanted Horse Coalition that is pro-slaughter. I am afraid I got KY (AAEP) mixed up in my comment,above, September 12 3:56 p.m.) and tho the organisation from KY was indicated by the UHC as part and parcel of the study, I am not sure how heavily they buy into the slaughter argument, actually. It is the UHC which is said to be proslaughter. I asked about them specifically to the Animal Law Coalition. The said, “pro-slaughter.” I am trying to make sense of this like everybody else and throw out things I have found along the way. Hope you didn’t take too much offense at my KY reference – that was what I remembered because like many, I relate Kentucky to all things good and holy where horses are concerned!!!

        It would appear the horse industry “is united in addressing and resolving the unwanted horses problem”. I wonder
        who their representatives are in Congress?

        And previous comments by others on the blog seem to fortell the demise of the horse slaughtering industry as it is today.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        I have been visiting the American Veterinary Medical Assn’s website and copy this here from their legislative page:

        H.R. 503/ S. 727 The Prevention of Equine Cruelty Act of 2009: This legislation would prohibit the shipping, transporting, moving, delivering, receiving, possessing, purchasing, selling, or donation of horses and other equines to be slaughtered for human consumption. The AVMA is actively pursuing defeat because the legislation does not adequately address the following issues: disposition of affected horses, animal welfare/standards of care for retirement and rescue facilities, costs related to the care of the horses, and environmental concerns related to horse carcass disposal.
        Status: H.R. 503 was introduced on 1/14/09 and was referred to the committee on the Judiciary, Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security. S. 727 was introduced on 3/26/09 and referred to the committee on the Judiciary.
        AVMA Position: Active Pursuit of Defeat
        Primary Contact: Dr. Angela Demaree

        I don’t know where the AVMA fits into all the other Veterinary Medical Associations or anything else.
        It’s just interesting they are against the bill. They have a whole page of this kind of stuff where it shows what bills they want to pass and which ones they want to defeat and to what degree they will work for the goal. Active pursuit is one of the highest levels suggested.

        Just throwing this stuff out here. Don’t really know if it’s pertinent to the issues at hand or not. . . .

  34. Shelley Sawhook Says:

    We are looking for groups or individuals that can go to DC during the month of October to lobby for the ROAM Act and the Horse Slaughter Prevention Act. Our organization will be there the week of Oct 18th, but we need folks there for a few days each of the other weeks. This way each of us can help lobby for the bills, not have to commit more than a few days of our time and we can make a bigger impact by having folks there every day for a whole month. If anyone is interested they can email me off this list at president@ahdf.org

    Someone asked where would their donations make the most difference. Personally I think that it is important for TCF to get as many as possible. Remember that this money is going to go toward saving as many of the older horses as possible and getting them into a sanctuary where they can remain with their family bands. My organization has sent funds and I personally have also mailed a check. It is unfortunate that we just didn’t have much in the coffers and the donations aren’t much. But even knowing that I would suggest TCF, not our group.

    • Lindsay McDannold Says:


      I would be more than happy to help with this. I only live 2 hors away from DC so if you need me, I can be there.

  35. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    Robert C. Bauer, You need to call Makendra. Call the Cloud Foundation in the morning. I hope you get through. You should be able to leave info with Christine or Valerie, so that Makendra or Ginger can get back to you. I can’t post Makendra’s number here. You sound serious. They need$ help and you may be the answer. Mar

  36. jo bunny Says:

    anyone got a birthday coming up??? have friends & family donate $$$ to TCF in place of purchasing a gift for you!

    start asking now for your early christmas – holiday – hanukkah – kwanzaa – new year’s gifts & get everyone to donate to TCF in place of gifts (oh-so-much easier than s-h-o-p-p-p-i-n-g )!!!!

    someone hit on this earlier in the posts…organize a benefit trail ride in your area & send the $$$ to TCF. send out some press releases to your local news….tv, radio, newspaper,& online media..post at tack shops, local riding clubs & equestrian centers……have people make checks directly to TCF when they sign up (might make it more legit).

    there also some ways we can increase wider awareness of Cloud & the Pryor Mtn. Mustangs, AND help TCF at the same time…. go on to the TCF website’s gift collection…..purchase your posters, books, Breyer models & DVD’s of Cloud & his family. give them to everyone you know!, ESPECIALLY the kids in your life (get the young ones in on this issue NOW); donate the books & DVD’s (new) to your local libraries & kids’ school libraries. we have purchased books from our favorite rescue & donated them to a local library & put them into gift baskets with other horsey things to donate as items used in a silent auction or for prizes at local small horse shows or pony girl clubs.

    educators, purchase the dvd’s & books & use them in your classes to increase further awareness. if possible, get the kids to do a fund raiser to benefit TCF. there are so many subjects you can tie into your lesson plans….it gets the kids active in writing papers about the mustangs & writing letters to Congress & to the BLM; it involves them in activism! science & math students can do a lot with this (environmental issues, horse evolution & behavior, doing the math on the numbers of wild mustangs we had 30 years ago vs the numbers we have today; how much $$$ is involved in roundups & adoption centers); the history of the mustangs, history of the legislation & people like Wild Horse Annie who set to make changes in their lives; social studies & current issues, reading the various reports in the news & opening up discussion on the topicss

    we can start thinking outside the box! raise $$$ for TCF AND increase awareness about this issue at the same time. while TCF needs $$$ now, they are also going to need more later; legal costs are going to continue as court cases will last months, years. $$$ to fund the care of the horses they CAN adopt is going to continue for years & we want to make sure that there is $$$ coming in later, too!

  37. jo bunny Says:

    there is some information on upcoming BLM roundups on http://www.americanherds.blogspot.com.

    of special interest, read fridae, 11 september’s post:

    Buckhorn/Carter Reservoir/Coppersmith Herd Management Areas
    BLM has signed the Final Decision to remove approximately 650 wild horses from these HMAs. The public has until September 19, 2009 to submit an appeal of BLMs proposal to the Interior Board of Land of Appeals (Please consider ignoring BLMs posted date of September 24, 2009 as IBLA is very strict on the 30 day time limit for appeal submission and it is highly probably that they will throw out a “late appeal” for this reason. There is no public recourse if BLM lies about the submission date).

  38. Susan NY Says:

    Great ideas here, thanks all. These roundups amount to taxpayer-funded “canned hunts.” We need to widen our base of support to more Americans, and make a long term commitment. With anything that’s gotten chronic like the BLM mismanagement, the status quo will take some leverage.

  39. Lindsay McDannold Says:

    Good Morning Everyone!

    I would like to ask for some suggestions regarding the rally for DC on the 24th. Is anyone here planning on attending? I have asked Chrsitine to post info on this on the website and I will also contact the media in DC and national media as well. The more people that come, the more we will have an impact. Please help get the word out!

    • Lucinda Suttle Says:

      I’m contemplating. I’m torn between spending the money on the big picture or the more immediate situation with the older Pryor Mountain horses. If it looks like there will be large enough group (50 ?) that can make a visual impact, then you can count me and daughter in for the 24th.

      • Lucinda Suttle Says:

        P.S. We did send in a donation to The Cloud Foundation today… : )

      • Lindsay McDannold Says:


        I saw on the blog updates that TCF is planning on attending the BLM Meeting on the 28th in Arlington. Then there is something in DC the day after that. I am assuming this made more sense to have Ginger take care of both at the same time. If this is the case, then there is no point in having one 1 week prior so I will cancel the Permit for the one on the 24th. I will double check with TCF on Monday and will keep you updated.

      • Lucinda Suttle Says:

        Got it. Thanks for the heads up.

      • Lindsay McDannold Says:


        Great News!!! I contacted Americans Against Horse Slaughter and they have agreed to join TCF in Washington! I am still thinking that the 28th and 29th will be the dates. I will call Christine on monday to confirm but I was so excited about this news!

      • Karen L. Says:

        Lindsay, It may have been mentioned before, but without plowing back through all the comments from the past week…..Have you contacted Alex Brown? He started the website alexbrownracing.com in honor of Barbaro. They have a great grassroots network against slaughter. I’m thinking they would join the march for the 28th. You know, he is a good resource guy–taught Internet marketing I think.

      • Lucinda Suttle Says:

        Hey Lindsay-

        I’ve booked the flights and my daughter and I are coming for both the BLM meeting and Mustangs on the hill. YAY! Can you shoot me an email @ zoo@suttlezoo.net and let me know where most everyone is staying overnight? We’re coming from CA. What do you want us to do?

    • Karen L. Says:

      Lindsay, Sorry. I may have posted my latest comment under the wrong “reply” section! Anyway, the ABR group is very serious in the fight against slaughter.

  40. Susan NY Says:

    2009 News – EU Crackdown on Drugs in US Exports – Horse

    While this roundup has been taking our attention, the European Union (major importers of US horse meat) is cracking down on drugs in US horses exported to slaughter.

    On July 1 2009 the EU implemented a strict passport system with microchipping for EU produced horses. A horse must be declared in or out of the human food chain by a certain age. No exceptions. Horses that are companion animals can get traditional vet care with medications to relieve pain, etc.

    Horses that are declared eligible for slaughter must carry a passport of all medications and the microchip proves the horse’s ID. No horses can switch from companion to slaughter, but if they get certain drugs – like Bute – slaughter registered horses will automatically be reclassified to compaion.

    Strict withdrawal periods for drugs will be enforced, and drugs banned from food animals – like Bute – will not be permitted in raised-for-food horses. There is no withdrawal period for bute – 1 dose at any time and the horse will be out of the human food supply. They will be testing for compliance, and can trace back to those who try to beat the system.

    What if the horse slaughter lobby managed to convince the FDA to change bute’s labeling? The EU sets its own medication rules, they don’t rely on ours.

    The EU started phasing in their strict passport rules in for 3rd country horses (horses coming to Europe from the US via Canda or Mexico) last April. The phase in goes for 3 years, during which time the EU will be reevaluating our compliance. – : )

    Starting next month (october) every US horse sent to slaughter to the EU will have to have an individual record kept of all drugs. I have not heard a peep from the pro-slaughter lobby about what they’re doing to be in compliance.

    A 6-month quarantine goes into effect next April. This will add a lot of $$ to the cost of US horses going to slaughter.

    The quarantine rule is temporary – by the end of the 3 years the US will have to follow the same passport rules as the EU if we want to sell to them. Plus, some drugs – bute, ivermectin, fertility for broodmares, etc – have no withdrawal periods. They are banned entirely from the food chain.

    We are watching this very closely, because it may mean the end of slaughter for US domestic horses.

    Who is going to withhold Bute from a race horse, or a 15 year old school horse? The only way to ship that horse to slaughter will be forged documents, and the EU will be testing for drug residues. They don’t trust us – as well they shouldn’t.

    “What will we do with all the unwanted horses?” is a common pro-slaughter argument. The EU doesn’t care. Setting aside the moral issue of selling food that can kill people – even small residues of fertility drugs given to broodmares can cause miscarriage in women – If we don’t follow their drug withdrawal and passport rules, they won’t buy from us anymore.

    For the trucks to roll across the borders with US horses, there must be a buyer. Horse slaughter has always been a demand-driven industry, it never moved on US supply.

    The EU drug crackown applies to Canadian slaughter houses and the 3 in Mexico we know of that are EU sanctioned.

    One more piece of the puzzle – you can’t legally ship/sell horse meat across state line in the US without USDA licensed inspection. Congress pulled the funding on that for horses, and Federal courts have turned thumbs down on the USDA’s bypass of that – no longer can the slaughter houses pay the USDA for their own inspections.

    For Montana to slaughter wild mustangs to sell to the EU, they would still have to comply with the EU drug records rules, or do the 180 day quarantine (that will be phased out over the 3 years) AND be inspected by taxpayer-funded USDA, which Congress stopped.

    We need to watch how the EU crackdown impacts wild mustangs who live au natural – except for the contraceptive drugs mares get. With the BLM, we are learning with this roundup what other folks have been saying for years – the truth is many layers below the surface.

    Those of us who have come to the wild mustang issue recently from years working to pass the slaughter ban are saying, the BLM wild horse and burro program is 10 times more corrupt than the US horse slaughter industry, and that’s saying something. A RICO investigation of the money trail would be a fun adventure for the Justice Department : )

    Thanks to everyone for being here for the wild horses. The passion of people for these wild mustangs is inspiring. I want Cloud’s family reunited with all my heart. Together, we can make a difference for all horses.

    For more on this, and copies of the new EU documents, visit http://www.equinewelfarealliance.org

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      thank you for this complete summary. It is a very interesting development. Canada is apparently on board with the EU and has stated they will implement the requirements.

      See http://www.animallawcoalition.org

      I posted an article link to this development in Canada elsewhere on the blog and will post it here again asap

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        The only article I found so far talks about Canada not yet on board, but I am sure I saw it mentioned they have gone on board with a quarantine period before slaughter.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Premarin issues must come into this too.

        That drug they make from pregnant draft mares’ urine. These horses are hooked up, kept pregnant and discarded for slaughter when their health gives in.

        I know there are recent developments on this, too, but will it stop this abuse of these draft horses in Canada???

        There’s a rescue group in NY State — on web — has this information about premarin.

        Ya know, come to think of it, there are huge horse breeding farms in US that are owned by foreign owners, such as German based owners I discovered on web one day out a-bloggin for pleasure!

        I contacted this German outfit by email and asked if any of their horses are used in medical testing and never got an answer.

      • Christine Says:

        “Premarin issues must come into this too.

        That drug they make from pregnant draft mares’ urine. These horses are hooked up, kept pregnant and discarded for slaughter when their health gives in.”

        It might interest fellow commenters to know that they also use American Bashkir Curlies in this because they produce a large volume of urine. They’re a distinctive and rare type of mustang found and rounded up in Nevada several decades ago, tho there were still some being found in wild herds occasionally up until a few years ago. I lived for a year on a rather pathetic ‘ranch’ where some mares who’d come out of the program were.

    • Nora Morbeck Says:

      Thanks for the update on changes in the EU/slaughter issues. This is all good news.

      Will the EU test these animals for drug residue? How will anyone know if a wild mare was once treated with PZP or anything else, for that matter?

      Also, under humane treatment of animals … Medical treatment cannot (or should not) be witheld, which puts feedlots in a precarious position. State Departments of Agriculture do visit these lots, as do rescue groups, so any animal stumbling around in pain would be reported.

      As far as I know, the BLM has a legal obligation to treat animals in pain, such as the foal shown in the video. Witholding medical treatment so that the horse is clean to go to slaughter seems like it would be considered animal cruelty. Is it?

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        Don’t you find that in all these cases, even tho the laws (anti-cruelty) are in place, there is no enforcement?

        Where is enforcement in all this? A cop doesn’t need a lawyer to stop a person from beating a dog.

        Why aren’t these laws being enforced better, the laws that ARE there?

      • Roxy Says:

        Not just animal curelty to not use a pain relief:

        Why would BLM care if a horse is elegible for slaughter or not? Is that in their written doctrine?

        “Follow the Money”

    • Janet Ferguson Says:

      I do not know if you followed the Babitt Grand Jury story I just read in my library book, Mustang, written by Ms. Sussmann.
      It looks like there was about to be this big breakthrough and everything plotzed!

      Do you understand what happened there?

      • Nora Morbeck Says:

        It seems to me that if there are veterinarians on site, they would be obligated to provide medical care for horses, much like a doctor for humans has a legal and/or moral obigation to treat people.

        What is the name of the horse vet who was in attendance at the Pryor range round up? Where did he go to school? Is he a member of any professional associations?

        The American Veterinary Medical Association has VERY clear guidelines regarding the health and welfare of horses (including psychological health, if you can believe it …) If he’s a member of that group, his credentials may come into question for not giving something as simple as bute to lame and sore horses.

        Perhaps some one could report this vet for not providing medical care to horses in need. Might deter other vets from participating…

        Just a thought.

      • Janet Ferguson Says:


    • Morgan Williams Says:

      Susan NY:

      A millions thanks for your informative education on the equine slaughter international industry. Thank you for spending so much time on this blog. I have learned greatly from your experience and knowledge.


    • Suzanne Moore Says:

      I’ve been gathering info on the changes the EU is making – and about time! I’ve been a horse owner for over 30 years, and because of my personal experiences with horse theft for slaughter I’ve been mostly focused on the slaughter side of things.

      Way back then in Texas, I was puzzled how people could eat these stolen horses – and believe me, horses were disappearing right out of folk’s back yards! – when everything we sprayed, dosed and even some topicals state: “Not for use on horses intended for human consumption.” Of course, all these horses weren’t “intended for human consumption.”

      All I can say to the EU is, “What took you so long?”

      • Janet Ferguson Says:

        something’s rotten in the state of Denmark — don’t you just feel it?

      • theandbetween Says:

        It seems to me that the EU restriction–taken together with the trend of states passing legislation to allow slaughter–could open the door to people setting up “farms” specifically to breed and raise horses for export as food, complete with “pesticide and medication-free” certification.

        I do not see the EU restriction as good news for horses. The ban should be against slaughtering any horses for human consumption. People who would resort to stealing horses will simply lie about where the horse came from. What am I missing here?

  41. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    There are still 4-H horse Chapters all over and a center in Washington DC. I was in 4_H when Wild Horse Annie was telling the American public what was happening to mustangs. Jo Bunny. California has 1,700+ wild horses and 10 million acres they range on. Maybe education and getting word out to 4-H kids would be a goal for a rally. We used to talk about all we heard about wild horses. They sparked our imagination and compassion, as they still do. I believe my first petition signing was at 4-H. I bet some of these kids do know something, but urging action on their part would be educational, informative and a way to get their input and response to the real threats to mustangs today. the 33,000 and counting need attention. We may have to move again for work reasons. Our situation is very unsure. You guys are gathering so much info, use it. Is there a 4-h chapter involved with the Cloud Foundation? I see no reason why there couldn’t be. Maybe some of you could volunteer to talk at a meeting at a local 4-H club. Not to raise $ but to raise awareness. Donations are voluntary, but it would help spread the word with kids who have dreams about horses all their lives. Mar

    • RJ Daum RPLS Says:

      I have worked with Student Conservation Association
      They are local, regional, state and national. they asked lots of questions about wild horses. Also http://4-h.org/.
      The President and Secretary Salazar listen through these groups. Its a back door so to speak but very effective.
      The young people in these groups have an amazing ability and energy to find the solutions.

  42. Marilyn Wargo Says:

    4-H is online with info on the horse chapters. I do not see any way to contact kids there. It may be possible to get a press release out to horse chapters through the Washington headquarters. I don’t have kids and we are new here. Are any of you 4-H leaders? Mar

  43. jo bunny Says:

    yes, you can talk to 4H chapters, local riding clubs, equestrian centers, local pony clubs. you can also go to horse shows & post flyers wherever allowed–even put flyers under windshield wipers of cars in the parking lots (if you can; some places won’t let you do this). talk at local libraries.
    the possibilities are endless! 8 )

  44. Roxy Says:

    Do we have permission from The Cloud Foundation, or whoever, to reproduce the Horse on the Hill or the Conquistador tee shirt pictures? (I called the tee shirt place, and they charge a fortune to print them and send them to you).

    I would do so and pass them out at the adoption in Prescott Valley, AZ on Sept 25 & 26. Would have to be black and white.

    And, anyone know who do you get permission from to pass them out or put on windshields? Maybe others have similar opportunities –

  45. Shirley Says:

    I am appalled to hear of horses going to be slaughtered.The horses don’t deserve that kind of treatment.there’s enough cattle out there they don’t have to resort to slaughtering horses.But the main concern now is to save these magnificent wild horses from extinction.and if BLM had their way it would come to that and be no more horses.As far as their over population in the holding pens is the BLM’s fault,for all the over done roundups they’ve done,they need to release these horses back out in the wild to roam free forever,as God so intended them to do.Run free have foals and live to a rape old age.I pray there will always be wild horses for my great grandchildren to see and know about and not by reading about them in past tense in a book.Our country was built on the backs of horses and burro’s and we should never forget that.From forefathers,to pony express to the settlers and calvary who built this country on the backs of horses.We should respect them and their wishes to roam free forever and ever free!!

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